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Post by TheBo on Oct 24, 2006 9:49:25 GMT -5
Yes, jjj, we should not turn our backs on what happened and is happening in Darfur or Sudan or anywhere, which we are wont to do if it does not suit our economic or political interests. This is a particularly American failing, I'm afraid. However, your suggestion that we just let China do whatever it wants without a peep of protest or inquiry--that's just silly. Just because a country is a "strong member" of the UN doesn't mean it's without sin. For pity's sake, the US is a member of the UN and you are criticizing it. "China has no motives"? What? Only an idiot has no motives. Of course China has motives, not all of which are beautiful. Just like any other country. And plenty of information is available. It's just not all freely disseminated.
Bo
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Post by skinz on Oct 24, 2006 11:09:33 GMT -5
I have not seen or heard of Tibetans being shot. Therefore i do not believe such stories. Have you been reading into Falong gongs propaganda again? Um.... it was on the news. It was captured on camera and broadcast on Romanian T.V. here's the footage Shootings No propaganda just hard conclusive evidence on tape
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Post by florelle on Oct 24, 2006 17:47:11 GMT -5
I have not seen or heard of Tibetans being shot. Therefore i do not believe such stories. Have you been reading into Falong gongs propaganda again? Um.... it was on the news. It was captured on camera and broadcast on Romanian T.V. here's the footage Shootings No propaganda just hard conclusive evidence on tape I also heard the news in a French newspaper.
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Post by JjJ on Oct 24, 2006 20:19:07 GMT -5
However, your suggestion that we just let China do whatever it wants without a peep of protest or inquiry--that's just silly. Just because a country is a "strong member" of the UN doesn't mean it's without sin. For pity's sake, the US is a member of the UN and you are criticizing it. "China has no motives"? What? Only an idiot has no motives. Of course China has motives, not all of which are beautiful. Just like any other country. And plenty of information is available. It's just not all freely disseminated. Bo I am not crticing no one. I am merely comparing things. US does always seem to have an anticommunist atittude when dealing with china though. Um.... it was on the news. It was captured on camera and broadcast on Romanian T.V. here's the footage Shootings No propaganda just hard conclusive evidence on tape Youtube videos do not exactly count as hard evidence. There are many things i see that are conflicting with what is being reported. The video could have been doctured up with computers. I am not ready to judge and comdemn any one yet. We have only heard and seen one side. If this were actual news,the US would have swarmed all over it. So i can only be skeptical of the footage. But i can not say who is guilty or not. It will be a wait and see for me
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Post by MasterCrabby on Oct 24, 2006 21:57:37 GMT -5
Hello, Basically, the US depends on China for many products and manufacturing. The US Government will often speak out on things related to China, but lately are not about to go beyond that. First of all, we have problems elsewhere. China figures that if we can't dominate Iraq, we can't expect to physically involve ourselves in China. I expect this is true.
Nonetheless, Chinese people in China have benefitted from our interaction, and I expect that to continue. I know that some of China's problems are due to overpopulation and consequent starvations inside China during the past centuries. Personally, I think we should all think more about limiting our family size everywhere.
Incidentally, I am heartened by the interest in dogs as pets, and the decline in the awful marketing for consumption of hapless pups in China, as it surely offends folks here.
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Post by TheBo on Oct 25, 2006 11:54:44 GMT -5
I agree with Master Crabby. About everything. Everything, I tells ya.
Personally, I think it would be wonderful to visit China. Everything I've seen about the countryside seems so beautiful and vast, although it's a shame about the three gorges being flooded for a dam. (But I'm sitting here with my cheap electricity (really, it is) and making judgments on that, so I shouldn't really.) One of those places you wish you could have visited...before...
Bo
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Post by seven stars on Oct 27, 2006 16:04:40 GMT -5
Just back from China.
Actually I was there last spring and plan to return next year.
It is most certainly a land of great beauty. Truly it is amazing to behold the antiquity of the Middle Country. However, I have to say that the true treasure of China is the chinese people themselves. The interactions of young chinese are in some ways vastly different than that of their american counterparts. It's actually quite remarkable. In addition, there is still a tendency to value the elderly in China.
Here in the states we tend to look upon China as a fascinating mystery, full of intrigue and perhaps fear. I have found this to be true in so far as intrigue and fascination are concerned, but it is a largely a place of greater individual and corporate peace than will often be found stateside.
These are merely some quick thoughts. I should point out that I love my country the United States. It is because of this love that I celebrate her greatness and give due attention to her weakness. As China increasingly embraces the benefits of the western way of life, I can only hope that they will be able to sift some of the residual evils.
7S
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Post by Tim on Oct 28, 2006 1:08:36 GMT -5
@jjj: I'm afraid it was on the news. LA times reported it, therefore, the untrustful Youtube wasn't the only one. However, there is still NO excuse whatsoever that those Tibetans travel without a passport. And to anyone saying that China refuses to give Tibetans passport, please show me your link and proof. Honestly, traveling to another country without a passport is as legal as driving without a license. You may argue that those Tibetans were killed because the CCP shot them down because of hasty decisions; however, you also have NO proof that they were 100% innocent because they did not have their passports at that time. What if they were smuggling drugs? Or maybe that could've been plotting conspiracies.... sevenstars: I'm glad you enjoyed China. It's a great place.
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Post by TheBo on Nov 1, 2006 11:00:26 GMT -5
@jjj: I'm afraid it was on the news. LA times reported it, therefore, the untrustful Youtube wasn't the only one. However, there is still NO excuse whatsoever that those Tibetans travel without a passport. And to anyone saying that China refuses to give Tibetans passport, please show me your link and proof. Honestly, traveling to another country without a passport is as legal as driving without a license. You may argue that those Tibetans were killed because the CCP shot them down because of hasty decisions; however, you also have NO proof that they were 100% innocent because they did not have their passports at that time. What if they were smuggling drugs? Or maybe that could've been plotting conspiracies.... Well, that's all fine and good, but you don't SHOOT people because they " might not be innocent"--geez, Tim. I don't think you're being your usual thoughtful self there... Bo
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Post by skinz on Nov 1, 2006 12:57:25 GMT -5
Well, that's all fine and good, but you don't SHOOT people because they " might not be innocent"--geez, Tim. Bo Hahahaha!! Anyway, I think Tim is looking for something so that it won't show China in a negative light. But what he probably fail to realize is that NO country on earth can control their image worldwide. They will be things china does well and things china does wrong, trying to find excuses will do nothing especially when its caught on tape. The more powerful China gets the more their moves will be monitored and their actions will be questioned.
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Post by JjJ on Nov 1, 2006 21:26:06 GMT -5
Hahahaha!! Anyway, I think Tim is looking for something so that it won't show China in a negative light. Right and your constantly trying to show china as positive too right.... But what he probably fail to realize is that NO country on earth can control their image worldwide. They will be things china does well and things china does wrong, trying to find excuses will do nothing especially when its caught on tape.The more powerful China gets the more their moves will be monitored and their actions will be questioned. Skinz trying to show china to be positive again.... Really i think you have North Korea confused with china. Well, that's all fine and good, but you don't SHOOT people because they "might not be innocent"--geez, Tim. I don't think you're being your usual thoughtful self there... Bo I am glad you mention that. Did you know that in the 70s the CIA was placed on a road in between tibet and china? The CIA was actually ordered to snipe at chinese military from this roadway. Supossedly to protect tibetans. But the CIA ended up sniping down Civilans as well as military. They decided to abandon that tactic eventually.
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Post by Tim on Nov 1, 2006 23:16:57 GMT -5
@jjj: I'm afraid it was on the news. LA times reported it, therefore, the untrustful Youtube wasn't the only one. However, there is still NO excuse whatsoever that those Tibetans travel without a passport. And to anyone saying that China refuses to give Tibetans passport, please show me your link and proof. Honestly, traveling to another country without a passport is as legal as driving without a license. You may argue that those Tibetans were killed because the CCP shot them down because of hasty decisions; however, you also have NO proof that they were 100% innocent because they did not have their passports at that time. What if they were smuggling drugs? Or maybe that could've been plotting conspiracies.... Well, that's all fine and good, but you don't SHOOT people because they " might not be innocent"--geez, Tim. I don't think you're being your usual thoughtful self there... Bo OK, so shooting down the Tibetans was a bit rash, but you don't just LET people that MIGHT be innocent go either... I mean come on, I say something to defend China and I get criticize for that?
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Post by Superiority on Nov 19, 2006 15:46:31 GMT -5
The Chinese have no right to shoot down those Tibetans; not even the Taliban were that harsh on illegal emigrants. As you all know, the Chinese persecuted the Tibetans because of their religious beliefs. The same thing with Falun Gong. They only admitted recently that they kill people and sell their organs illegally.
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Post by TheBo on Nov 20, 2006 9:56:32 GMT -5
Tim, my point was that there is a process to be followed before punishment is meted out, and that's not within the purview of the military or the police of any country. I wasn't saying they should "let them go"--I was saying, they didn't have a right to SHOOT them. The military has the job to capture and gather evidence against suspicious persons, and to engage in fighting with armed militants. These were not armed militants.
And JjJ, as a matter of a fact, I am aware the CIA has been involved in shady, disreputable, illegal and immoral dealings at many points and places. What does that have to do with the actions of the Chinese military? Perhaps you believe I should shut my mouth in embarrassment due to my jingoism. Well, I don't have any. If my cousin steals a car, that doesn't mean it's all right for my enemy to steal a car. They're both wrong, and I have the duty to speak out on both matters.
Bo
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Post by JjJ on Nov 20, 2006 20:33:47 GMT -5
The Chinese have no right to shoot down those Tibetans; not even the Taliban were that harsh on illegal emigrants. As you all know, the Chinese persecuted the Tibetans because of their religious beliefs. The same thing with Falun Gong. They only admitted recently that they kill people and sell their organs illegally. US has no right to shoot and torture Iraq people. US persecute them for their religious beliefs too. So what you acuse china of doing,is no different from what other countries are doing around the world.
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