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Post by DDucky on Aug 23, 2006 20:11:10 GMT -5
Technically, the shrine is not the problem because it have nothing to do with WW2 and was built way before the conflict, its the moral decision that was acted out when the names were put in. While Japan could make a case that the shrine itself is a religious place that contains no boundaries on who was right or wrong and that all are even, it continously dismisses victims demand to remove the names and show some recognition on their crimes. Actually it is a problem. Originally it had good intentions. But the Meiji Emperor screwed things up by changing the name and turning it into a war shrine. (remember it was originally called happy shrine) Then later on adding war criminals to it. The problem is made worse, when You have a defiant PM visiting the shrine on official duty. Disregarding pleading people from other countries to stop. Also the Japanese constitution has a clause that stipulates a separation of government and religious activities. Koizumi continues to violate this clause. Thereby offend war victims and their families.[/quote] OK, OK.... I thought that this thing was in Korea, that's why I didn't understand why they didn't just take it down...... If it's a Japanese shrine in Japan, then there's not much you can do about it.....
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Post by Tim on Aug 23, 2006 22:30:47 GMT -5
You thought the Yasukuni Shrine was in Korea??!! Why would Koreans build a shrine dedicated to Japanese warriors? That doesn't make sense. Furthermore, later, class A war criminals were put there! They were criminals who murdered innocent Chinese and Korean women. Why would the Koreans build a shrine to dedicate to the murderers of their own people?
*sighs* Ducky, if you are not sure about a part of the history, maybe you shouldn't be so passionate on defending or opposing a view. People might mistake you for a political enemy.
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Post by Ducky on Aug 24, 2006 12:07:45 GMT -5
You thought the Yasukuni Shrine was in Korea??!! Why would Koreans build a shrine dedicated to Japanese warriors? That doesn't make sense. I thought it was in Korea because Koreans were making such a big deal out of it.... If a Japanese guy wants to go to a Japanese shrine that's in Japan there's nothing you can do about it..... Why don't Korea and China build shrines with the names of their class A war criminals on them and then send pictures of it to Japan???
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Post by Tim on Aug 24, 2006 13:31:47 GMT -5
Why don't Korea and China build shrines with the names of their class A war criminals on them and then send pictures of it to Japan??? That's because the Chinese and Korean governments will not sink to the level of the Japanese government. The Chinese and Korean government are trying to prove that they are not as low class and heartless as the Japanese government is.
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Post by JjJ on Aug 24, 2006 22:54:22 GMT -5
If a Japanese guy wants to go to a Japanese shrine that's in Japan there's nothing you can do about it..... That japanese guy you reffer to, is no ordinary guy. He is the PM of japan. There is many things you could do. Protest,write letters,Trade sanctions,impose high terriffs on japanese imported goods and boycotting of all japanese products or components. Why don't Korea and China build shrines with the names of their class A war criminals on them and then send pictures of it to Japan??? Because unlike japan,Korea and china are not stupid to do such a rude thing. They do not want to create a problem. They simply want japan to stop its insensitive behavior.
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Post by Tim on Aug 24, 2006 23:50:54 GMT -5
And also, if China and Korea worship their war criminals, then Japan will just say she has no reason to stop visiting Yasukuni shrine. If China and Korea can do it, then why can't I? The thing is, China and Korea have not build such shrine, but regardless, the Japanese PM is still stupid and rude enough to do such heinous act.
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Post by skinz on Aug 28, 2006 14:54:38 GMT -5
Actually it is a problem. Originally it had good intentions. But the Meiji Emperor screwed things up by changing the name and turning it into a war shrine. (remember it was originally called happy shrine) Then later on adding war criminals to it. The problem is made worse, when You have a defiant PM visiting the shrine on official duty. Disregarding pleading people from other countries to stop. Also the Japanese constitution has a clause that stipulates a separation of government and religious activities. Koizumi continues to violate this clause. Thereby offend war victims and their families. I agree, the shrine was a victim of nationalistic propaganda. But I don't think its fair to group all the japanese people solely on what their prime minister does, there were numerous protest by japanese people for years about their government officals going to the shrine. All the anger should go directly to the conservative political party that are so in denial of Japan's past that they will do anything to justify their actions. I think South Korean, Taiwanese, and Chinese americans should start protesting whenever a prime minister ,that visit the shrine, tour the U.S. and embarrass him in America since Japanese leaders would do anything to get America acceptance. Do like Falun Gong members are doing to Chinese leaders everywhere they go and start embarassing certain leaders in public.
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Post by TheBo on Aug 29, 2006 11:22:32 GMT -5
Thank you, skinz. Very sensible suggestions and comments.
Bo
PS = Not that I would imply that anyone else is not being sensible. ;D
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Post by JjJ on Aug 29, 2006 22:54:00 GMT -5
I agree, the shrine was a victim of nationalistic propaganda. But I don't think its fair to group all the japanese people solely on what their prime minister does, there were numerous protest by japanese people for years about their government officals going to the shrine. All the anger should go directly to the conservative political party that are so in denial of Japan's past that they will do anything to justify their actions. I do agree with your point. But Koizumi represents japan. Same as Bush represents Americas thoughts and feelings. I know not all japanese agree with Koizumi's nationalistic views.(about 50%) But i wonder how many of those disagreeing japanese,are of pure blood. Traditionaly these non pure blooded japanese have been labeled as gaijin(foreigner) or worse,hafu. (half,as in, half pure japanese and half foreign) Surely i believe it is these people that are the ones to speak out the most about the visits. I think South Korean, Taiwanese, and Chinese americans should start protesting whenever a prime minister ,that visit the shrine, tour the U.S. and embarrass him in America since Japanese leaders would do anything to get America acceptance. Do like Falun Gong members are doing to Chinese leaders everywhere they go and start embarassing certain leaders in public. I think protesting is good. But it will only go so far. I think action is the most powerful thing. I do not mean with violence. I mean not supporting japan financiallly as best as posssible. Boycotting products works better. I have already talked with many companies to stop using japanese components for various reasons.
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Post by Tim on Aug 30, 2006 0:58:12 GMT -5
Wow, JjJ, you're as radical as ever. Well, although I think Koizumi ought to be humiliated worldwide for his hideous actions, by boycotting Japanese goods, the entire Japan will suffer. Keep in mind that we are targetting Koizumi and all his other idiotic supporters, such as Shinzo Abe. Our enemy is the Japanese politicians, not every Japanese.
I do believe he is right about only mix blood and foreigners protesting against Koizumi. Japan has harsh immigration laws, so even if you were born in Japan, but are not fully Japanese, you are not a citizen. And if you're not citizen, you can't participate in the elections, which means the gaijins and mix bloods' opinions don't mean crap for Koizumi.
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Post by Tim on Sept 20, 2006 20:50:52 GMT -5
I just read some interesting news on Abe. Actually, he isn't as bad as he was. Yeah, he supports the Yasukuni Shrine and promotes nationalism throughout Japan, but some say he will try to work for a better partnership between China and Japan, even if it means visiting the shrine infrequently. I don't know if anyone still cares about this thread, but just my two cents.
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Post by JjJ on Sept 21, 2006 18:25:30 GMT -5
I just read some interesting news on Abe. Actually, he isn't as bad as he was. Yeah, he supports the Yasukuni Shrine and promotes nationalism throughout Japan, but some say he will try to work for a better partnership between China and Japan, even if it means visiting the shrine infrequently. I don't know if anyone still cares about this thread, but just my two cents. Personally i still think it is wrong for Abe to do so. This is was the same guy that demanded that america and war vets apoligize for dropping the atomic bomb were talking about here? also found an article on what he wants to do to reform japan "Japan's Abe, Poised to Lead, Offers Nation Vision of Pride The Washington Post TOKYO -- To glimpse the brave new Japan of Shinzo Abe -- the hawkish 51-year-old poised to replace Junichiro Koizumi as prime minister next week -- take a peek inside the eighth-grade history classes at this city's prestigious Tamagawa Academy. Using new textbooks with lessons hailed by Abe as the foundation of a more confident nation, junior high students at the elite private school are this year being taught something that has been largely taboo in post-World War II Japan -- to take pride in their country. The texts omit or soften references to atrocities committed by Japanese troops during the war, assure students that the war was waged primarily in self-defense and promote the ideal of a proud and independent Japan. The controversial..." article.wn.com/view/2006/09/19/Japans_Abe_Poised_to_Lead_Offers_Nation_Vision_of_Pride/
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Post by Tim on Sept 22, 2006 19:00:24 GMT -5
Wow, ok, I take that back. Shinzo Abe really is evil. I read the article that says Abe may not be as evil as he seems off LA times. I guess LA Times are very anti-China and pro-Japan. I recently realized that, considering anything bad happening in China, they immediately post it as big news. Then, when Koizumi visits Bush to go to Graceland, LA Times glorified it as a vist of two lifelong friends and that it was absolutely OK for them to ignore all of Japan's atrocities. When confronted about Yasukuni Shrine, Bush says nothing and LA Times is actually cool with that. I am very disappointed in LA Times, and I am thinking of unsubscribing to them now.
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Post by Superiority on Oct 8, 2006 19:24:19 GMT -5
Abe is a respectable man. He would do well to lead Japan. He is even trying to resolve differences between China and Japan. Maybe if China allows Japan to have a permanent seat in the UN, things would be different.
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Post by JjJ on Oct 8, 2006 19:46:22 GMT -5
Shinjo Abe is not a respectable man. He is not trying to resolve anything between korea,china and japan. He Simply wants japan to continue economic trade. Therefore will provide lipservice to who ever will listen. Once he gets what he wants,He will continue doing what Koizumi was doing. He is trying to make Japan a Zenophobic imperialistic military nation again. Japan should never get allowed to join in the UNsc. Japan simply can not be trusted with its words.
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