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Post by ginnycat5 on Nov 30, 2005 19:13:50 GMT -5
I just saw a Chicago Tribune article (Nov. 25, sec. 1, p. 24) "In Japan, 2 Comics slap Korea, China, and they're big hits"
One comic is called "Hating the Korean Wave": "It's not an exaggeration to say that Japan built the South Korea of today." And: "there is nothing at all in Korean culture to be proud of." The book has sold 360,000 copies so far. The sequel is being written, saying that Korea cheated to be in the World Cup. The other book slams China, saying it's obsessed with cannibalism and prostitution. It's sold 180,000 copies. This is scary that such crap is finding an audience.
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Post by Tim on Nov 30, 2005 20:44:16 GMT -5
I just saw a Chicago Tribune article (Nov. 25, sec. 1, p. 24) "In Japan, 2 Comics slap Korea, China, and they're big hits" One comic is called "Hating the Korean Wave": "It's not an exaggeration to say that Japan built the South Korea of today." And: "there is nothing at all in Korean culture to be proud of." The book has sold 360,000 copies so far. The sequel is being written, saying that Korea cheated to be in the World Cup. The other book slams China, saying it's obsessed with cannibalism and prostitution. It's sold 180,000 copies. This is scary that such crap is finding an audience. Yeah, I know. Frankly, I don't really care what the Japanese think about her neighbors. But I think it's sad that in those two books, the Japanese also said that the only thing that the Japanese should be ashamed of is being Asian. That's the only thing I truly find sad about it... the others are just mindless rants.
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Post by sunami chun on Dec 1, 2005 9:33:42 GMT -5
There are ignorant people everywhere just ignore this kind of people.... they have poor education and a poorer soul...about being ashamed of being asian this is a sin they carry and mustn´t be easy to live hating itself....
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Post by Tim on Dec 2, 2005 0:32:48 GMT -5
The thing is, most Japanese (from my point of view, very sorry if this offends anyone) seem to support this idea.
Sunami chun, Japan is a very advanced country, probably the second most advanced country in the world (not sure if that's true, but it is one of the best). They are very well educated. This is just a very ignorant feeling that the Japanese is suffering, probably because they can't stand the fact that both Korea and China (whom Japan has really bad relations with) are rising. Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone who found this insulting.
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Post by Skinz UL on Dec 2, 2005 11:01:52 GMT -5
This is Japan problem right now:
#1- They have no real alliance with their region area.
With the history of WW2 and their atrocious behavior to their neighbors, they have isolated themselves from other asian countries. Japan prime minister have apologized for their war crimes but its met with skepticism of its sincerity
and
#2- They are desperately trying to shift themselves to becoming more westernized and alienating themselves from other asian cultures.
Since China economy is booming and trying to become the big power in the region and Korea entertainment business is booming in the region, Japan is pretty much being left out of the transition. The U.S. is their #1 alliance so they're more worried what the U.S. is doing rather than current events in their asian neighbors.
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Choko
Junior Addict
Posts: 191
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Post by Choko on Dec 2, 2005 12:50:47 GMT -5
Sad news... but it is ture that more and more Japanese youths think that way. I have loved the Great Jang-geum fan board made by a Japanese DJG fan, but now it is filled with more and more insults made by those who hate Korea.
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Post by sunami chun on Dec 2, 2005 15:59:51 GMT -5
Tim, these are ignorant points of view that only ignorant people buy and i don´t mean ignorancy in formal education. All nations in east asia seems to have THE correct history view, an their history has just been used over and over to attack, defend, for denial or affirmation, distorted repeatedly, incessantly.... but i do think what they just need is like a couple shrink to know exactly what they think of each other because i would guess behind this curtain of ignorancy there is lot of things they think favourably of each other....and instead of this minor prejudice kind of insult try to understand why it does happen towards each other....what i mean is that i was reading some parts of a japanese book written by a japanese who married a korean woman and he tells about his experience....taking some parts that i´ve found very short sighted there are interesting things for each countries people have this kind of prejudice.... two things i´ve deeply considered about a japanese vision of korea.....one is the fact that yang-bans, presumably scholars, were the ruling social class and despite good confucian values they had so many social benefits that they became materialists and self-centered, worst than that they became arrogant. He says in the book that for a japanese mind it is inconceivable that scholarship and wealth can walk side by side and it can´t be done either without humility , but why koreans are so arrogant towards other social classes and towards other people who don´t have the same title or money and why koreans repeatedly says it that korea is the cultural matrix of japan (ive said that too) and claims they´ve invented so many japanese cultural assets if indeed it can have come from korea as it came from china to korea if it was japanese that really valued it, what is the point of it?....and i kind of agree with this point of view because i know that we kept repeatedly saying this arguments for no reason other than to self affirm that we are good as japanese (someone is gonna kill me for this but as i´ve said before i dont care who was more money, gdp, scientific improvements, or nobel prizes), but i know also that the pride of korea was deeply hurt and we need this to keep going not to feel inferior to them. The second vision was about the sinocentric vision of the world that both china and korea assumed in asia, calling others barbaric people and despising them, and about it i´ve said in another topic.....that is very hard for koreans and chinese to accept that japan has its own cultural unique identity, and in many ways they can teach us somethings.....i´ve been taught all my life for all the koreans that we are better than japanese, we created, they´ve copied, we are good and they are evil, no one never said japanese have many good things that we can learn from, we were never rational about this issue, we´ve all looked them with lots of regret, envy and anger, but for us to end this bullshit we will have to forgive them for what they did....and it starts thru people and not from books or formal education, thru personal relations and not thru politics....what country will have the first step out from this mess? we should erase our inferiority complex....japanese have their own problems with usa and the atomic bomb issue....anyhow what do we want from them? a deep forced sorrowful feeling or that they agree with everyone of our claims so we can feel good and superior to them? i´ve comdemned jews for constantly remembering the holocaust when they do their own litlle party with palestinians, what good can come from someone who feels victimized all the time?
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Post by Tim on Dec 2, 2005 22:23:53 GMT -5
To Choko,
Sorry to hear about that. I haven't seen DJG yet, but I've heard it was really good. Hoping I can see it in the future! And yeah, they are trying shift away from Asian cultures.
To Sunami Chun,
I agreed that they were ignorant to do this. I said I didn't agree with what you said earlier, and that was Japan had a poor education.
You are certainly right that both Korea and China does seem to discredit Japan in their historical views. Japan does feel pressured by this. However, does it give them a right to slander Korea's and China's name by saying we have nothing unique in our culture? Sure maybe China (I don't know that much of Korean's view, sorry) has said something nasty about the Japanese's culture, but why does Japan have to say the Chinese are nothing special except they have a lot of whores? That's going too far. What's more, if the Japanese thought their pride was hurt, why did they say that they are ashamed to be Asians?
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Post by sunami chun on Dec 3, 2005 7:58:01 GMT -5
Tim,
it is funny that as asians we are regarded and remembered by westerners for having religions that always praised to look inside before the outside, to search for ilumination and freedom inside your soul....there is racism everywhere in this world and there has always been.....But in our case this racism carries centuries of hatred and ignorancy of each other....anyway it is just an internal necessity to explain their and my frustration, envy or anger because the funny thing at least for me that can have contact with many japanese people is that for each bad phrase i hear about korea in this board i hear 3 or 4 sincere praises of Korea so i could guess there is 3 to 4 times more people who are sympathetic to me than unsympathetic and why should i focus on the bad things and the bad people? and why shoul i advertise hatred or be quiet when i can see in a sense at least in the personal experience that this ios not true? it was someone frustrated because a korean a girl dumped him or because he lost his job for them or because he just wants to draw attention man
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Post by sunami chun on Dec 3, 2005 11:08:05 GMT -5
tim, answering your questions... we know of our unique cultural identities and assets, don't we? going too far....i don't know.... if i was japanese in china 5 months ago and had my store torn into pieces i think it would be easy to say bad things and generalyse, heal my wounds with cheap nationalism and moronic arguments at least it would pass on my mind i guess.....Did you know that in korea, chinese people were only aloud to have chinese restaurants, not long ago? let's look into our own belly (this information i got from somewhere and i dont know if it is accurate, please correct me if i'm wrong....)....Chinese government is trying to take goguryo history.....they are not right, we are not right, and as far as i know there isn't a hegemony of righteousness, and there isn't a nation that the whole population has the same feeling for others, even vatican, thanks god..... with this sinocentric vision, if we continue to isolate them into a barbaric nation that stole their main cultural assets from others i think we will never have a strong asian sense...i guess that the success of korean dramas and the korean wave was an attempt to rescue their roots to asia and it was evident that they do admire many of our cultural aspects.....what should be their relation to asia if we see it thru our point of view? i'm very very proud to be korean, but we keep ourselves imprisoned by our feeling to our bittered past to much specially with japanese, we are very dramatic people that's why our dramas are so good ...but comdemning others we deviated ourselves to look reasonably into our innerselves, japan is still defeating korea nowadays in our minds....
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Post by Tim on Dec 3, 2005 19:29:41 GMT -5
tim, answering your questions... we know of our unique cultural identities and assets, don't we? going too far....i don't know.... if i was japanese in china 5 months ago and had my store torn into pieces i think it would be easy to say bad things and generalyse, heal my wounds with cheap nationalism and moronic arguments at least it would pass on my mind i guess.....Did you know that in korea, chinese people were only aloud to have chinese restaurants, not long ago? let's look into our own belly (this information i got from somewhere and i dont know if it is accurate, please correct me if i'm wrong....)....Chinese government is trying to take goguryo history.....they are not right, we are not right, and as far as i know there isn't a hegemony of righteousness, and there isn't a nation that the whole population has the same feeling for others, even vatican, thanks god..... with this sinocentric vision, if we continue to isolate them into a barbaric nation that stole their main cultural assets from others i think we will never have a strong asian sense...i guess that the success of korean dramas and the korean wave was an attempt to rescue their roots to asia and it was evident that they do admire many of our cultural aspects.....what should be their relation to asia if we see it thru our point of view? i'm very very proud to be korean, but we keep ourselves imprisoned by our feeling to our bittered past to much specially with japanese, we are very dramatic people that's why our dramas are so good ...but comdemning others we deviated ourselves to look reasonably into our innerselves, japan is still defeating korea nowadays in our minds.... Yes, we should know of our unique cultural identity and assets. I do know about the Chinese months ago that attacked Japanese businesses in China, but from what I heard, they did the same thing in Japan, but vice-versa (I said I heard, not sure if it is true). Both the Japanese and Chinese have exaggerated, true. But, at least the Chinese didn't say that the Japanese's culture suck and have absolutely nothing at all. And at least the Chinese didn't make that into a book. And even if it did, it wasn't one of the most popular books in China today. You bring up an excellent point that we shouldn't imprison ourselves by keeping bitter emotions about our enemies. However, atrocities aren't that easy to forget. Many people's lives were taken, or worse, ruined (in my point of view, living on to suffer is worse than dying). I'm not saying we should all attack Japan, but I am saying that we should not forget the atrocities that they committed so easily. And for your Chinese claim on Goguryeo history... god, I just had an argument before on another thread... but whatever. As far as I'm concerned, I didn't hear anything about this when I was in China, or talking to my chinese friend. There may be some border disputes about Northeastern China, but as far as I'm informed, the Chinese have made no attempt to seize the Korean Penninsula. Last point I wanna make. The Chinese are some of the most unreligious race in the world. Communism just made it even more unreligious. In ancient China, you would have a lot of people worshipping Taoist and Buddhist gods. Some even Christians and they would go to those temples. I don't think that's justifyable, but blah... w/e.
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Post by sunami chun on Dec 3, 2005 19:52:29 GMT -5
sunamiDo you know what is worst than living in the past? living in a bad past....i say this because many serious scholars (historians, sociologists, intelectuals) who have truly concern on Korea and talk openly and reasonably about the colonial period and the mistakes WE did to let this happen are called pro-japan, and sometimes this people are "politely" marked for the rest of their academic lives as pro-japanese whatever it means.... what in my opinion is very short sighted, that's why i say about imprisonment and continuous defeat we are still too emotional about it and we won't overthrow it before we stop to weep....the past can be recent but it is never early to learn specially for us the second generation after it happened.....
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Post by sunami chun on Dec 3, 2005 20:23:43 GMT -5
also, Minister Yu and The great admiral said several times in the drama and i bet it really happened...."let's do whatever it takes to not allow it to happen again....", for whose sake's did they humiliated themselves? for future generations, right? but it was our government (wicked scholars)arrogance that once again let it happen, whose fault is this once again, the japanese, the martians, god , wheel of fortune..........our own fault and they just took advantage of it....or are we koreans just eternal victims of the japanese...we cannot forget atrocities but can we forget our mistakes?
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Post by Tim on Dec 3, 2005 20:55:38 GMT -5
True, true. I didn't say that the victims have no faults. I only said that forgetting and forgiving atrocities aren't that easy. As a Chinese, I will say that it was the Chinese's fault for not opening up to the West during the age of Imperialism, and we should learn from that as a sign that we must isolate ourselves because we are ignorant, proud, etc.
However, just because we were ignorant, stupid, etc., this doesn't give anyone the right to invade our country, killing people, enslaving children, etc.
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Post by sunami chun on Dec 3, 2005 21:27:26 GMT -5
correct man, it does not give the right, but it would be naive to think that it won't happen again considering nations....maybe from our own country like in the three kingdoms period in korea.....or to be more recent the civil war....
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