Post by sunami chun on Dec 3, 2005 22:00:41 GMT -5
war and atrocities will go on and on and on untill everything is stardust again (being realistic humans love a war don't they, they loooove power and money) or...untill we start to sincerely acknowledge each other and pass it thru generations.....if humanity and nations lasts, trillions in the future won't have to suffer it again, do you worry about the future as you do with the past?.....but if some military extraterrestrial being come to earth we can deviate ourselves and have a new enemy and maybe become forced friends for a while.... that's the other theory
It's true that war and atrocities will go on forever, but admitting to your faults first will prevent recent and pointless wars. Right now, many Chinese believe that some day soon, China and Japan will go to war soon. How will history look at this war if it happens? China's revenge against Japan? Japan's War of Justification? I hope that it will not happen, but many Chinese think that it will happen. If the two countries can just put this behind the two of them, then all of the upcoming wars can be avoided. However, that's not the case. Neither country is being friendly to one another. Btw, sorry for not going on in awhile.
Post by japan babofool on Jan 14, 2006 23:27:06 GMT -5
japanese are really stupid... they attacked pearl harbor... the wanted to be world conqueror... they are stupid because they did not learn lesson from atomic bomb at hiroshima... They hates everybody!! japan is sad country
Post by sunami chun on Jan 15, 2006 17:20:21 GMT -5
i think that what i've learned from this soap opera and the admiral is that we should never be too emotional it blurs your mind and actions like with general won kyun. The admiral's position as commander was to always coldly analyse every aspect without prejudice and he was the only one who could see how important it was to not fight openly against japanese because they were superior in close combat , not to mention so many other tactics that allowed him to protect Korea because he knew his enemies. He even did his own research about japanese culture because there was no books available about this people on the national library, isn't this sad?! U wanna win a war or at least defend your country and u don't even know who is attacking because the yang bans thought you are the center of the world together with china, was it a surprise like this when the japanese once again raped our nation?.....talking about politics wouldn't japanese be stupid to not take this oportunity even because they had to get rid of many samurais in their country that could make a turmoil after the unification, also it is funny that japan sent so many requests for the country to be aware of their power and also because somehow they respected our culture ( in the soap opera they ask a way to china am i right? and if this is historically true i cannot think why would they do it other than respect for our pottery and way of life, maybe someone has a political view better than this....), i respect the position of our country in that time, loyalty to china was beautifull right? i really would like to think so, but we all know that this was a political decision because we never took real interest on the subject untill it was too late (the very founder of the yi dynasty betrayed koryo king right?)....i know politics is sad but as i said we won't get rid of it so soon, but is also funny that the world seems to take care of people or nations that feel superior to others, they are always kicked in the butt like japanese, chinese, koreans, germans, etc , etc, etc, and if they do feel superior nowadays you can be sure that they will be kicked in the butt also and again.......When and if they or anyone else come again and you can be sure that war is going to happen in ten or in a thousand years, so will you say "you are sad people?", "You are stupid", "get out of my country"? Politically talking who was the stupid ones to let all this happen? not only scholars but the people also even my family....Please let's open our eyes and be more humble, they invaded us twice, this is the reality, in the first time if we hadn't help from chinese (once again politically speaking, nice help huh? just in time to the war not spill to their country, and weren't they just right to do it?) i don't know what would have happened but i guess we could be talking japanese, and in the second time if it wasn't for america that also separated our country in two (politics are crazy no?) and because (you r right this time) of the japanese stupidity and arrogance belief that they would conquer the world we would be eating missoshiro everyday. I still try to understand howcome i care so much about korea if i was born in Brazil and i hate so many things of korea and koreans but i really do care and you know what? it was really hard for me to get into reality because it hurts but at least is the true and i know this is the correct way to be better then them, to win them, to win destiny....to use the reasonability that the best confucian values that we've praised for centuries and made minds like of the admiral gave us. Love your country and countriesman first of all, but no speace for ilusions please. Let's get real, they are no monsters and we are not the purest and good people we think we are. You want revenge? be humble and learn from them...but i advise you if you have a good heart and i guess so, you may loose the interest on revenge because you will know real people and no concepts of people and nations....
and Japan babofool i really would like to know....what are the reasons on your mind that made japan invade korea twice other than what you've put?
I think sunami chun's comments are rather off and offensive. Japan wanted to conquer the world back then as it did in 1942. They didn't exactly politely ask to open a road way to Ming. They demanded it to happen. I can certainly understand japan babofool's feelings too. Current day japan is trying to hide it's atrocious past.
Yes it is an important discussion to some people but it has gotten almost out of hand before. We have a nice little bunch of people in here. I'd like to keep it that way. And I don't want this to get out of hand. Remember to play nice. Remember this is not a political forum. We allow these discussions as long as it does not get too hot tempered. Please no name calling (even to a particular race not just a particular person). If you have something to say please say it without name calling and slander. If this gets too crazy it can just be deleted.
Post by sunami chun on Jan 16, 2006 17:31:22 GMT -5
I really would appreciate if you could explain where am i being offensive? and to whom exactly please? in more than 3 lines if possible because it seems u don't want to talk but just accuse. I miss the Korea that almost deposed President Park Chung Hee when he demanded japan for war indenizations ( and politically speaking he really needed that money), because the people were proud and they didn't want to accept that money, but you can only say that they have to be sry, that they are trying to hide their past, asking them to feel sry, WHAT kind of pride is this? You should love your country for good or in bad and try to make it better!!! For me this is a beggars mind, accusing others, feeling victimized. Get your head up you are much better than this....If you think they are trying to hide so what, really, what do you expect from them? A great guy said to me once "you don't ask for respect, you earn it!" if you give only one argument that is plausible i will never again right in this very board, but i will be really happy that i am learning....
No matter how hard we try learning from our mistakes, peace will ALWAYS be violated. No matter how hard you try. Honestly, I don't believe there is a method to secure peace. We learned this from World War I. The Americans thought it to be the war to end all wars... and look at what happened. WWII, Vietnam War, Korean War, the war in Iraq... and it will continue.
Sunami Chun, you make good points about not being too emotional, however, this ideal peace of yours is not possible. We can try, but ultimately, we will fail. As long as two men can argue about anything, war is destined to happen.
More than anything, I want Japan, China, Korea, and the rest of the world to cooperate together in peace, but if Japan keeps provoking China and Korea, it is only a matter of time before peace is corrupted.
As for Japan bobafool, please do not attack the Japanese like that. I am angry at their past crimes, but calling them names and screaming how evil they are will not make things better. People who just scream and whine are the people who cannot really make a difference in politics.
Post by sunami chun on Jan 17, 2006 9:38:53 GMT -5
Chigirl, it is me that do have to thank this board because i was never able to talk to other koreans the way i do in this board (with such freedom that i do because i think there is many people who loves korea and who are moderate and wants to learn as i do because i´m a son of immigrants) and i really don´t want to cause controversies or win arguments for my ego. But I do want to share my opinion because i think by exposing my thoughts someone can help me make it better or show me other sides that alone i cannot see, what i´ve said untill now is because i have always lived among japanese people, in my childhood, youth, and i have many japanese friends, real friends that i can count with , and i have never been mistreated by them or any other japanese person, but nevertheless i was struggling wih this deep thought of what these friends ancestors did to us because as i said before i don´t know where this love that is so strong for korea comes from and also the hate (look this hatred it is really funny because the manchus and the mongols also did their party with koreans and north and south koreans also made atrocities to us but it seems that they are all forgotten and forgiven but not japanese, i imagine that we think they could never do it cause they are a yonger country than Korea, it was a kick in our butt because we felt superior, but hey why can´t we learn from them so what kind of pride is this also? And aren´t we hypocrits that they don´t have anything to teach when many things comes from them? And as for atrocities war is a war and i bet if koreans invaded japan with wonkyun in command it would also be atrocious) This are the general ideas that came to my mind and i have built to agregate my love for muy country and my love for my friends and when i talk to my japanese friends i can get my head up and tell them " we´ve let u invade korea because we did many stupid things and not because you are better than us, u just took advantage and i know all the causes that made it happen, i can sustain my point of view, also historically (evolutionary history) your country did many good choices, because you were isolated and could do so, different from us", and this argument is really different from what i did before that was to just try to argue that they were evil people and tell them the bad things they did to us, i guess the only thought that could come from their mind was what a pitifull and resented person he is and korea definitely doesn´t need that and i don´t want to lose my friends for stupid arguments....
Tim, as long as two man can open hearted argue with each other, war will be avoided. We are only aware about the wars that happened but there are no records of wars that had been avoided because of diplomacy....War will never end, it is a naive thought, but smart people can turn enemies into friends.
Post by sunami chun on Jan 17, 2006 11:31:45 GMT -5
I liked the way the admiral conquered chen lien´s heart, in any moment he looked as he was a brown nose. Chen Lien was so arrogant in the beggining and aware of his superior position and eventhough the admiral with truth and not politics could make him his friend that even made him build a memorial to our admiral.
On the other hand when some officers of the court came and the admiral had to give them a feast and he gave them plain food because the country was starving and his soldiers also, the high ranking officers got so mad because they felt disrespected at it that he made more enemies, just freaking unbelieveble!!!
Mm... avoiding wars... i like the way you're thinking, sunami. However, I still don't think that is possible. From this point, I believe it is only a matter of opinion. I do believe war can be avoided, but not all the time. In this case, I do believe that Japan will cause more tensions and possibly even war with her neighbors. However, that is just my opinion, observing Japanese and Chinese political views. There seems to be a lot more Japanese who are anti-Chinese than there are Japanese who are antiKorean, in my point of view. However, I digress.
Sunami chun, it is interesting to hear some of your Japanese friends' point of views, but I'm afraid that Japanese living in Japan have a much harsher view on Koreans and Chinese. (unless of course, you live in Japan, in which case, I will admit that I am wrong.)
Post by sunami chun on Jan 17, 2006 21:58:44 GMT -5
I think u missed the point here, although i've talked about my friends they have nothing to do with my opinions about korea that is the central theme here, they only have to do with my will to see the world without cheap prejudice just that. The main theme i want to point is that the soap opera showed clearly and also chinbirok from Minister Yu song ryun that if we hadn't made so many mistakes we could have prevented everything, war and atrocities. And personally i think that is better to think that we are guilty than others because it moves us to correct everything, so it is useless to say that japan as nation is criminal calling all of the people criminals because the reaction would be in the same "coin" as we say here in Brazil. Not just useless but a provocation for war and eternal ignorancy. I want some reasonability over this issue because it is hard to see koreans demanding war reparations as they had no sense of real pride. Almost never seen reasonable arguments about this issue anywhere by any korean, only complains or fake pride over "cosmetics". Maybe because you are not korean u won't understand it, i'm sorry, but we have the ability to become happy with such small things like, a korean golfer that won the worldseries, that the samurais came from korea, that sushi is korean, etc, whatever small things, just "cosmetics", materialist expressions, we long for reconaissence because it seems we forgot what we are and in what we believe, country principles, history of great minds and idealistic human achievements in counterpoint to the blindind brilliance of gold and status, anyway it is the world path right now, am i correct? Reading what i wrote till now i really feel that I'm just a dissonant voice but this is what i think and i would like that the nation could get closer too it because it has my love but is loosing my respect, becoming pretty much as everyother nation that lost its self repect and needs cheap self affirmation and somehow if it wasn't for the Admiral that has my love and respect and loved its country with such truthness i wouldn't bother to think on this issue anymore.....
I get what you're saying about preventing wars, but I just don't think it's possible. Actually, if you think about it, all wars can be prevented if we do what you say about not having too much pride, pointing fingers, etc. Sorry, I just don't think that is possible, or else war would have never exist. It is because we humans will blame each other and not admit our faults that war will still come.
I may not understand Korean pride, but if what you say is true, then let's leave it at that. Again, I think whether Japan will be involve in an upcoming war with her neighbors is just a matter of opinion.
Post by sunami chun on Jan 19, 2006 13:12:30 GMT -5
Hey tim, getting lighter, you are chinese right? From Taiwan? I just came back from a business trip from Hong Kong, shenzhen, guanjhou, shanghai, ningbo and sujhou, i really liked HK and coastal Continental China. I´ve been to beijing, Xian, chengdu and lijiang 10 years ago and it was great also. Chinese people seems so much lighter than korean. I was really impressed with HK because the people were polite and i enjoy it so much.....I´ve also made friends and we´ve talked about politics and i got amazed at what the "communist" government is doing there. but i was used to think that china is a congregation of several nations and races but talking to them they said china is mostly han and the other nations were conquered, what is your view on that?