Ken
Junior Addict
Posts: 197
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Post by Ken on Jan 20, 2011 0:30:08 GMT -5
Wow, I guess it’s good I didn’t get around to reading this thread until very recently. I’ve never read more off-target criticisms of a series than what’s here. (edits tirade) It’s a real pity that such a wonderful show is being wasted on such an unappreciative audience. Giving this show a 6 or 7 is just crazy.
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Post by TheBo on Jan 20, 2011 10:25:09 GMT -5
Wow, I guess it’s good I didn’t get around to reading this thread until very recently. I’ve never read more off-target criticisms of a series than what’s here. (edits tirade) It’s a real pity that such a wonderful show is being wasted on such an unappreciative audience. Giving this show a 6 or 7 is just crazy. LOL, Ken, I wondered why the hardcores weren't squawking. I only got to watch a few episodes of EWG back in the day, but my memory says it was pretty popular.
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Post by pilseung on Jan 20, 2011 15:19:08 GMT -5
Wow, I guess it’s good I didn’t get around to reading this thread until very recently. I’ve never read more off-target criticisms of a series than what’s here. (edits tirade) It’s a real pity that such a wonderful show is being wasted on such an unappreciative audience. Giving this show a 6 or 7 is just crazy. The nice thing here,Ken,is that you enjoyed this drama. However,I've learnt from threads like this one that it's really rare for a whole bunch of people to have the same opinion about anything! The great thing is that this board allows us to express our opinion about each drama,no matter what it may be. Thumbs up for FREEDOM.
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Post by MTR on Jan 20, 2011 16:48:16 GMT -5
Well Ken must have no problem with plots that drag on and on and on ,not to mention uneven pacing ,characters that vanish without explanation more power to him. Also i did state that the low rating was based on the final 50 episodes which let the series down .In fact i gave the first 150 a 9 . Than lets get into plastic swords ,and helmets ,rubber breastplates ect . recycled footage of battle scenes . Everyone has different opinions but if you cannot appreciate that and launch personal barbs ,nothing i can do about that have fun !!. Even Choi sujong was pretty much absent from the last 30 episodes confined to a 5 min slot than we would cut to his wives chatting about the state of affairs which had not progressed much at all . The final 3 episodes were great
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Ken
Junior Addict
Posts: 197
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Post by Ken on Jan 20, 2011 16:51:48 GMT -5
... Everyone has different opinions but if you cannot appreciate that and launch personal barbs ,than get back in your playpen . ... You need to take a higher road. I disagree with you very strongly, but I didn't attack you personally, though your disrespect for a masterpiece richly deserved that. I stand by my "opinion" (which I have a right to, as pilseung correctly pointed out) that a 200 episode epic historically accurate (for the most part) series deserves more than a 6 or 7 rating. I don't think there's a Korean drama, historical or otherwise, that doesn't suffer from the pacing problem you described. For example, YSS (which I guess would get a 3 by your criteria) had 20 episodes of his boyhood.
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Post by MTR on Jan 20, 2011 17:18:26 GMT -5
Actually i gave IYSS an 8 Want to know why ?,for its depiction of the Japanese which was very very off base and im a major in Japanese history so do not even try and debate me on that one . Let me also point out that many of my gripes about "THE LAST 50 EPISODES "of Wang Guhn ,again you miss my point i rated the first 150 as near perfect but felt the writers started to run out of steam towards the end .Anyway i have read similar gripes that were very similar and actually much much more harsher than myself on boards from Hawaii ,Philly ,and LA . Actually i did very much take your gripe with me on a personal level because i do not see it as a masterpiece (close but not quite there )you infer that i am crazy . BTW the Goongyae revivalists were not happy with it either .(South Korean Scholars that actually protested the depiction of Goongyae )but i thought their claims were flimsy at best .
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Ken
Junior Addict
Posts: 197
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Post by Ken on Jan 20, 2011 17:45:12 GMT -5
Actually i gave IYSS an 8 Want to know why ?,for its depiction of the Japanese which was very very off base and im a major in Japanese history so do not even try and debate me on that one . ... How could I possibly debate with reasoning like that? I do concede that #147-197 weren't as good as 75-125.
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Post by MTR on Jan 20, 2011 18:57:59 GMT -5
Aiigoo we are getting somwhere , remember though i do really like the drama i actually loved it from 1=150 ,but i just felt after that KBS dropped the ball a towards the end .
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Post by Gracien on Jan 20, 2011 23:29:02 GMT -5
Aiigoo we are getting somwhere , remember though i do really like the drama i actually loved it from 1=150 ,but i just felt after that KBS dropped the ball a towards the end . Thank you DYC, I will not add my two cent in, you stated your point and I also agree with you for the first 1-150 episodes, no more said. Thou we may not agree on every level we should respect ones opinion and do away with the jibes. I loved the drama but like those who love historical dramas was a tad bit disappointed. Not close to masterpiece. Cheers,
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Post by TheBo on Jan 21, 2011 11:17:42 GMT -5
.... Thou we may not agree on every level we should respect ones opinion and do away with the jibes. .... I'm going to step in here. Grayson/Gracien (that's really clever I like that) and DYC, and Ken, too, just because there are "jibes" does not mean the conversation is invalid or ugly. We all should be polite, and you all have been. However, good-natured insults, as long as they are not too personal, have long been a legitimate weapon in the arsenal of debate and discussion. They are part of the fun. Let us not be too sensitive. Just because someone doesn't like your opinion doesn't mean they don't like or respect you. Further, from my reading of the conversation, the only insults were to opinions, not persons. Especially in light of the subject matter--warriors--let's not decide we only want to participate in a love fest. The Archfiend would be appalled and derisive. ;D Bo
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Post by MTR on Jan 21, 2011 13:40:51 GMT -5
Yes could not agree more ,verbal sparring is a must ,keeps us on our toes ,now where is that 4 foot battle axe ?.
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Post by Gracien on Jan 21, 2011 14:59:41 GMT -5
Yes could not agree more ,verbal sparring is a must ,keeps us on our toes ,now where is that 4 foot battle axe ?. Ah! Hold on I'm logging it your way.... sparring is fun just as long no ones pride is hurt in the process. Gracien
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Post by MTR on Jan 21, 2011 16:28:36 GMT -5
caught it ! thanks .. I agree we can disagree without getting nasty about it . I expected to get reamed for what i said about Wang Guhn and overall i think its great ,but imagine when it first aired you had 6 episodes where Shin Ghum could not make up his mind to overthrow his father than another 5 episodes where he could not decide to be Emperor at 2 eps a week that's about 5 weeks of thumb twiddling .
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Ken
Junior Addict
Posts: 197
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Post by Ken on Jan 23, 2011 19:12:46 GMT -5
Thanks, Bo, for stepping in and helping keep things civilized. I actually don’t find this sparring “fun” at all, and I don’t dislike my colleagues here, though I’m a little irritated with them. If we were discussing a different series, I’d let it go, but EWG doesn’t deserve being pelted by such invalid criticisms. Right down the line, every one of DYC’s barbs is baseless, with the exception of the recycled battle footage, which I consider completely forgiveable considering the budget and the number of battles. While I agree that the last 50 episodes aren’t as riveting as the first 150, there isn’t a dropoff in quality so much as the series missing the presence of characters like Goongae and the Advisor.
I dug out my copies of some of those last 50 episodes where KBS allegedly dropped the ball, and watched a few of them in the 182-195 range. I was actually a little surprised because I considered the possibility that there might be something to DYC’s and G’s criticisms. Contrary to DYC’s assertions , the time devoted to Shingeum’s usurping the throne was necessary because his becoming the last ruler of Later Bekjae was part of the historical record. Thumb-twiddling? Not hardly. Suh In Suk, who played Kyun Hwon, turned in one of the all-time great performances in K-Drama. Watching him in his old age suffering through his physical problems and being confined (with the allegedly –disappeared-without- explanation Madame Kobe) by Shin Geum was mesmerizing. I’m sure the focus on Shin Geum probably was what DYC objected to , but the writers not compromising on dramatizing the historical record is admirable, nothing less. Disappearing characters without explanation? Madame Kobe? Check out the beginning of #192 where a thumbnail history of her legacy is given. ‘Nuff said. EWG’s first wife? Wang Guhn’s choosing to give the rare ginseng that could have saved her to Kyunhwon’s father was a major plotline. She did disappear, but it was explained. As far as pacing goes, I say just look how short extensions of 12 or 13 episodes literally killed QSD and Dong Yi, which were a third of EWG’s length. I also want to point out that I’ve seen very little (and no credible) criticism of EWG on other boards. On koreandramas.net, for example, in the review section, there are over 40 posts, the most for any series, none of them negative. Here’s the thing and it’s important: The reason that EWG is far superior to the other historical dramas that followed it is that the series isn’t simply entertaining. It’s enriching in that it teaches as well as entertains and does it with an honesty and level of scholarship that unfortunately is unlikely to ever be seen again in a Korean (or any other for that matter) historical drama. Its 200 episodes cover three generations of Korean history and explore the relationship of the people to their government, and the peasants to the nobility with a depth, honesty and understanding that’s unprecedented in a television series. Yi San, Jumong and even The Immortal Yi Soon Shin, are hopelessly flawed in comparison because of the numerous and in many cases (especially YSS) unnecessary historical distortions. While I liked them a lot, I didn’t learn much from them and I miss that part of the experience of watching K-Dramas these days. That’s why I defend EWG so strongly. It’s great art.
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Post by Gracien on Jan 23, 2011 21:15:03 GMT -5
Ken, When did DYC says that this drama was not good? She spoke of the pacing, the battle uniforms, the lack lusterness of the dragging of episodes, no explanation of people popping in and out etc.etc. she never said it was not good..she stated from 1 thru 150 she enjoyed the remaining episodes was flawed and I myself thought that to. Yes, EWG was close to historical correctness, but it still had it flaws and we can still be disappointed.
All the other dramas you mentioned they were loosely based on the character of that time, also there was some true historical fact pointed out, and yes they were also entertaining. I did not read her being critical of EWG she just pointed out its shortcomings.
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