chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Nov 13, 2009 22:37:59 GMT -5
Episode 50Mishil couldn't even give Bidam a little bit of love at the end even if she had to fake it. She told him she didn't regret abandoning him and she never said she loved him. She had no remorse. That's ice cold. It's the least she could have done for Bidam. He just wanted to hear those words. There's no reason to lie on your death bed so I believe she meant what she said. What kind of mother leaves her infant on the floor because he's of no use to her and walks away never to look back? I don't think she chose a dignified exit, she lost and didn't want to face the consequences (execution for treason). She was not a heroine but a villain and should not be given a grand funeral. Everything she has ever done was not for the good of Shilla but for herself. She wanted a grand empire that she could rule. Seolwan asked her "Why now are you looking after the people and caring for them?" She said to Seolwan, "If I weaken the national boundary and the battle line with my own hands, then this Mishil will lose everything to Deokman." She didn't want any of Shilla's territory to be lost and be blamed for it in history. That's her ego. She didn't tell Seolwan and her followers to help Deokman. She said, "Prepare the next stage." Mishil used and bought people to achieve the level of power she had to be more influential than the King. All the men that were loyal to her were rewarded in some way. Some people show love in a different way than others. You know, the classic British father type who tells his son to keep a stiff upper lip, and that sort of thing. Mishil is that type, I think. She's not a touchy/feely type. I think she did care about Bidam, and that's why she sent him away during the coup, and didn't simply have him killed. However, I'm not arguing that she was good. She was certainly evil. When I say she cared about Shilla, I mean she cared about it because she viewed it as her personal achievement. As for her exit, I think it was in character for her, and dignified by her standards. Remember, Deokman was not going to execute Mishil for treason---far from it. She wanted her as part of her regime. She extended the olive branch. That, indeed, is a morally questionable action on Deokman's part. Somehow, she doesn't seem to view Mishil as evil. The consequence Mishil wanted to avoid wasn't execution, but simply the humiliation of serving under the one she had wanted to defeat, but failed. I don't know what Mishil meant when she told Seolwon to prepare the next stage. That will be interesting to see.
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Post by pilseung on Nov 13, 2009 22:46:49 GMT -5
Episode 50In history Bidam rebelled at the end of Queen Seondeok's reign and she hasn't been crowned Queen yet. Thanks for that Tinkerbell.I was hoping he wouldn't immediately start leading a revolt against her.Now I know. Let's sit back and watch Mishil's cronies start being annoying idiots who should lose their way without their (intelligent) leader.Every time they did things behind Mishil's back in the past ended in failure so why should that change? ;D
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Post by mugwump on Nov 14, 2009 18:22:09 GMT -5
I agree, Tinkerbell. It was a bit odd for the writers to try to paint Mishil in a sympathetic light in her final hours, when for the first 49 episodes they portrayed her as a ruthless, cold-blooded power-hungry killer. Despite her heartfelt speech about how much she loved Shilla and had shed blood for it, I don't remember ever seeing an episode where she was doing something for love of the country or the people (she openly despised them). Certainly she helped King Jinheung build the country, but that doesn't mean she had earned the right to rule it. And even while she was serving him, she was building up her power base in order to betray him. As Deokman stated in an earlier episode, the kingdom had been stagnating under Mishil's "rule".
I am looking forward to what instructions Mishil left for her followers. Seolman didn't look too concerned about the future. I really hope she has a posthumous nasty scheme in store for Deokman. I think that would be more in keeping with her character than just slipping away quietly. Of course, as someone pointed out, are her men capable of functioning without her?
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 15, 2009 15:21:17 GMT -5
chuck, I see what you're saying about Mishil. She said she was sorry to Seolwan for ending it all but didn't say sorry to Bidam. Munno was strict and sometimes harsh with Bidam but before he died even he expressed his love and voiced his regret. I still think she was cold hearted IMO. I agree that Deokman wouldn't have executed Mishil. She's gracious in giving people a second chance.
haha right pilseung, some of them will probably run around like idiots. I think Mishil's most loyal subjects will continue her plan, the next stage. I think Seolwan, Chilsuk, Seokpum and Mishil's family won't give up easily. It's not over yet.
Yes mugwump I remember that too. The country hadn't progressed under Mishil. She was already intimate with Seolwan (and possibly others) before King Jinheung died and as you said, building her power base.
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 15, 2009 18:53:57 GMT -5
Interesting tidbit of information The mounting pressure from Baekje infuriated Kim Chunchu, a Superior Minister of the Shilla government. Faced with few alternatives, Kim Chunchu readied a special diplomatic mission to travel to Pyongyang to request troops from Shilla's northern enemy, Goguryeo. Before he left, Kim spoke with his close friend, Kim Yushin. After the two men swore a blood-brother oath to each other, Kim Yushin said, "If you go, but do not return, then the hoofs of my horse will surely trot on the courts of Goguryeo and Baekje." Kim Chunchu let his friend know that if he did not return within sixty days they would never see each other again. Kim Chunchu was a handsome man with the agreeable smile and manner of a seasoned diplomat. It gave him little advantage however, in his first and only meeting with Goguryeo's ruler, Yeon Gaesomun (Legendary Goguryeo General & DJY's fictional master). After listening to Kim make his case for Goguryeo assistance against Baekje, Yeon Gaesomun boldly demanded that Shilla give up its dominion over the Han River basin as the price to be paid for his help. Kim had no authority to even consider such a request and the meeting ended with Yeon Gaesomun rejecting Shilla's request out of hand. Kim Chunchu was then jailed for later execution. Sixty days passed and Kim Chunchu had still not returned to Gyongju. True to his word, Kim Yushin chose and trained an expeditionary force of 3,000 Shilla warriors, ready and eager to march on Pyongyang. Before Queen Seondeok could decide on a date for Kim Yushin to leave, Yeon Gaesomun learned through a spy just who it was he had in his jail and what Shilla was planning to do about it and released Kim Chunchu from prison. Not long after his release, Kim Chunchu traveled to the Tang court in Changan to seek Chinese military assistance. Emperor Tai Zong responded favorably to the request for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was Goguryeo's newly finished defensive wall along the Liao River and its blockade of the overland routes traveled by tribute missions from Baekje and Shilla. The resulting Tang-Shilla alliance meant that Queen Seondeok now had an ally at Baekje's back.
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 16, 2009 21:24:01 GMT -5
Has anyone else heard the rumor that there may be another extension to 70 episodes?
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Post by consoleman on Nov 16, 2009 22:36:59 GMT -5
^ No. Then they have to change the title from Queen Seondoek to Kim Yusin.
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Post by griffin on Nov 17, 2009 2:19:33 GMT -5
Can't imagine what else they could do if they go to 70. Unless they're plannng to throw in the husbands the historical QSD had to stir the pot. 51 Nice coronation!!! She still walks awkwardly though, I'd half expecting her to glide majestically to the throne. Aigooo! One pledges to give everything, the other pledges to take everything. x.x Bad Bidam! That sort of thing always leaves me wondering if the translator is leaving something out. Yes, Fort so and so ---- what? Disappeared? Collapsed to the ground? Got up and walked away? Spit it out! No, it's deliberate. There's nothing wrong with the translation. They did this "dramatic stutter" quite a number of times. Example : when Princess CM revealed to Yushin about having a twin sister and that stupid "stutter" of Yushin's just took the longest time to blurt out DM was a woman. Then there was Chunchu's initial apperance and the plot he hatched, DM and Yuhsin were sitting at the table wondering what he was up to, and that "stutter" came back.
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Post by pilseung on Nov 17, 2009 16:15:39 GMT -5
Ep 49 and 50 Her keeping the execution warrant still doesn't make sense to me. And why it was so connected to Bidam. And when Bidam showed it to Mishil, she thought to herself that it had found it's rightful owner. What did she mean by that? Why did she think Bidam should have it? Maybe Mishil said Bidam is the rightful owner because she hopes her legacy will get to live through him if he did manage to become King [/size]?(I believe there have been many instances where the child restores his/her parent's rightful status posthumously once the child becomes a person of great power.) I believe her last few words to him were to effectively guide him into pursuing her dream not taunt him .[/quote] I know you tried to explain pilseung, but it still doesn't make sense why the execution order wasn't destroyed and why Bidam was the rightful owner. Ep 51Mishil wanted Bidam to become King! [Man,it's sometimes just soooo hard to be humble ..........heheheheh] ;D
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Nov 17, 2009 23:23:27 GMT -5
Episode 51:
So Mishil did want Bidam to become King . . . I still don't see how the letter to have her murdered has anything to do with it. She already told her followers that Bidam was her son. Bidam knew it. What does the letter prove?
Why would Bidam adopt his mother's odd theory of love---taking everything away from the one you love? Oh well. Yushin Rang will have something to say about that, anyway.
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Post by griffin on Nov 18, 2009 7:19:33 GMT -5
Ep 52 Ahhh, the burdens of being Queen. Poor Seon Deok. Gotta love the subtle transformation though, she's coming across as a more seasoned, unyielding and confident ruler. Bidam is soooo like Mishil... like mother like son. Will SD allow Bidam to arrest Yushin? That'll be tilting the balance of power between the two. And Bidam's "gestapo" is already driving everyone to look at their own shadows.
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Nov 18, 2009 23:18:53 GMT -5
Episode 52:
I can't argue against the Queen's putting down the Kaya secret army group. She proclaimed fair treatment for them, and they just couldn't leave well enough alone.
However, there is absolutely no reason for her to suspect Yushin Rang of any complicity with them. If she tells Bidam to investigate him, she will be in the wrong.
I also don't like the Police State atmosphere she is fostering under Bidam. I'd rather live under Mishil than a Police State run by Deokman or anyone else. At least with Mishil, you know where you stand. Under Deokman, people are arrested without explanation, on the off chance they might be guilty of something. After all, if you're innocent, you'll be released. Isn't that a great system? In other words, you are guilty until proven innocent.
Didn't like that episode at all . . .
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 19, 2009 0:36:24 GMT -5
^ No. Then they have to change the title from Queen Seondoek to Kim Yusin. Well it took 51 episodes to see Deokman crowned as Queen and she wasn't Queen for a day. She reigned for 15 years so why would it change to Kim Yushin? Yushin could have a drama all his own since he was one of the greatest generals in Korean history. The Samguk Sagi alone has 3 chapters on his life. Episode 51Finally we have Queen Seondeok. The ceremony was very nice complete with dancing girls and for the first time dancing dudes. ;D I'm with you chuck. Keeping the execution order and supposedly keeping it for Bidam still doesn't make sense. How could it help Bidam? Even if he had exposed the truth, the merit would not have made him king. Her twisted advice to Bidam about taking everything away from the one you love is in the same catagory. Only the proof of Bidam's birth and status is beneficial. So now we know what "It's Bidam" means. If her plan failed Bidam was the next stage. Bidam finally had to confess to Deokman. I'm glad he explained everything to her. "She abandoned me because she couldn't use me to become queen. She wouldn't acknowledge me as her son." etc. It was nice seeing Deokman comforting him just like she did with Chunchu awhile back. I think the reason Mishil wants Bidam to be the king is for her ultimate revenge against Deokman. It has nothing to do with love. Bidam has royal blood and he's her final pawn to take it all away from Deokman. Mishil sent the troops back to the borders "because she didn't want to lose everything to Deokman." It seems crazy Bidam is back. I loved when he walked in with that black feather fan just like Miseang uses. ;D He sure laid down the law. Don't mention Mishil's name again, I am here, me Bidam, follow me alone. I understand the Queen's thinking but I don't think she should let everyone off the hook. I hope it doesn't come back to bite her. Seolwan is very evil and deceptive. He will do everything in his power to fulfill Mishil's last wishes. I agree with Chunchu, Yushin and Alcheon. "Even if you spare their lives doesn't mean they'll be on your side." "They're a threat to the nation." The traitors should be punished at least the ones calling the shots. Glad to see Chilsuk and Seokpum gone. Chilsuk pledged allegiance to Mishil for saving his life but I guess he forgets when Deokman saved him back in China. If she hadn't swallowed the death piece everyone would've been executed. Seokpum doesn't deserve to be in the Hwarsang. He was proud to be a hwarang? Why didn't he, Chilsuk, Seolwan etc. observe the rules especially "Never take a life without a just cause"? That merchant Yeomjong is trouble. He's been helpful for awhile but I didn't forget he killed Munno. Why is he trying to cause discontent and jealousy with Bidam and Chunchu? Whose side is he on?
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Nov 19, 2009 12:18:38 GMT -5
I just read on the Javabeans site that Bidam (Kim Nam-gil) has come down with swine flu, and "the producers of the historical drama are making amendments to the scripts to account for his absence."
He was quoted as expecting to be well enough to continue filming after this weekend.
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Post by mugwump on Nov 19, 2009 18:06:55 GMT -5
The KGB - I wonder how much Deokman really knows what's going on there? Is she giving Bidam plenty of rope to see what he does with it? How much does she really trust Bidam? Actually it seems everything he's doing is perfectly legitimate. And he is weeding out real crooks. However, it's his methods that are way out of whack. He is really enjoying intimidating people. Of course, he has always been like this, but we accepted it (and even thought it humorous) when he was intimidating the bad guys. He is so, so jealous of Yushin. You'd think Yushin would notice this, but he's incredibly naive. I think Munno referred to him as "honest and guileless to the point of foolishness". Wolya - why couldn't he leave well enough alone? Does he still want to make Yushin king so he can have more power? Deokman has delivered on all her promises to the Kayans. No wonder she's so ticked off. I don't think she'll have Yushin arrested, unless she's too mad to think straight. If Chunchu is right, she'll make sure Yushin and Bidam remain even as to power. Yeomjong - more of a slimeball as ever. In the last couple of episodes we've seen him sucking up to both Bidam and Chunchu, goading them to seek more power so he can ride on one of their coattails. He's also apparently keeping cozy with Miseung. I hope he gets a very slow painful death at the hands of one of the good guys. Hajong crying for Mommy - he'd get more sympathy from me if he hadn't been up to his ears in the family's misdeeds.
Last but not least, Archeon sure looks good in a beard.
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