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Post by mugwump on Nov 5, 2009 21:20:13 GMT -5
Yes, Seolwan watches Star Trek. That scene cracked me up.
The other funny thing - Chunchu really doesn't know how to ride a horse. So he was being honest about at least one thing when he first arrived.
I did find it a little disturbing when all the soldiers and nobles were pledging allegiance to him. I hope he doesn't get the idea that after Mishil's out of the way, he can put himself forward to be king again.
I agree that Archeon didn't get killed yet in real history, so he probably won't leap in front of Deokman (he's probably too weak anyway.) Maybe he'll tackle her from behind.
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chuck
Junior Addict
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Post by chuck on Nov 6, 2009 19:49:32 GMT -5
In that last scene Mishil admitted she had lost. Obviously she has committed treason on a dozen different levels. Incarcerating the King, attempting to murder the Princess, etc. So is she going to fight until she is killed? If she is captured, will she be executed? How would Bidam react to his mother being executed? How many episodes will this go on?
There are 14 episodes left. Is Mishil's part done? Will they go on to something else, like uniting the three kingdoms? That's something that is talked about in a lot of historical dramas (Jumong, Sodongyo), but never seems to happen.
On the Han Cinema page, there is this quote:
"In both our drama and history, Kim Yusin is the ultimate victor". (scriptwriters Kim Yeong-hyeon & Park Sang-yeon)
So it would seem Yushin's role will increase. How can he win except by uniting the three kingdoms?
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Post by mugwump on Nov 6, 2009 21:02:35 GMT -5
Yes, is Mishil's part in the drama drawing to a close? Hard to see how she'll survive this. Although I saw an article about the show with the writers saying something to the effect that Mishil would lose everything til all she was left with was herself. So this sounds like a gradual erosion, rather than a quick execution. Of course it might mean she gets to see all her men executed before she goes.
Also from a news article, it sounds like there is quite a bit of story left to cover with Bidam. Given the air time Munno's book and the unification theme have gotten so far, I think it's safe to say this will also be a big part of the ongoing plot.
I'm not sure what year we're at, since we don't have a narrator in this show. But those of you who watched Dae Jo Young know that by the mid 600's Baekjae had fallen , and Gugoryo fell to Tang not long after, with help from Shilla. (At least in TV history).
I will miss Mishil and her boys, but I think this show is compelling enough to go on without her.
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Post by consoleman on Nov 8, 2009 23:08:44 GMT -5
In this drama, Mishil is big risk taker. Mishil in real history is not even politically represented.
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Post by griffin on Nov 9, 2009 2:50:20 GMT -5
Yes, is Mishil's part in the drama drawing to a close? Hard to see how she'll survive this. Although I saw an article about the show with the writers saying something to the effect that Mishil would lose everything til all she was left with was herself. So this sounds like a gradual erosion, rather than a quick execution. Of course it might mean she gets to see all her men executed before she goes. I was kinda expecting the outcome above. The Queen did curse her to a lonely existence/death after the assasination of the elder twin.
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 10, 2009 1:34:42 GMT -5
I'm not sure what year we're at, since we don't have a narrator in this show. But those of you who watched Dae Jo Young know that by the mid 600's Baekjae had fallen , and Gugoryo fell to Tang not long after, with help from Shilla. (At least in TV history). Mishil's days are numbered. She will a) escape and go into hiding, b) plan another plot, c) be executed or d) become a nun at a Buddhist temple. Oh wait, scratch that, she didn't like that plan before. ;D I hope we see some justice served. I've seen pictures of Bidam in some pretty fancy duds so I'm sure we all know what that means. Queen Seondeok reigned from 632 to 647. In 600 AD, the allied forces of Tang China and the Kingdom of Shilla launched military campaigns against the kingdoms of Baekjae and Goguryeo. Kim Yushin's many exploits on the battlefield helped lead to the destruction of Baekjae. Many of Shilla's legendary hwarang warriors earned their reputations during the Tang-Shilla campaign against Baekjae. In 667 AD, Tang sent a request to Shilla for military assistance. King Munmu appointed Humsun, Kim Yushin's younger brother, and Kim Inmun, the son of Kim Yushin's sister, as generals to command the army against Goguryeo. Shilla launched its major offensive against Goguryeo from the south under the command of General Kim Inmun. Kim Yushin was kept in reserve to protect the country against a possible Tang attack. Goguryeo succumbed that winter.
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Post by pilseung on Nov 10, 2009 7:18:41 GMT -5
EP 49:
This is what I've really been dreading;Bidam has started betraying Deokman.Mishil was smart to protect/hide him before the coup d'etat which now makes him loyal to her.Deokman's "mom" was correct not to trust Bidam.He is starting to stand by his mom despite her abandoning him as a baby.Ironically,all this happens after Deokman had just told Bidam that she trusts him with all secrets.
I love that Hwarang who liked Deokman's "mom",Sohwa.He's one of those rare people who make me remember how wonderful a true and loyal friend can be.Without you asking,they'll support you and watch your back for you through the difficult times.He gave Deokman the vital heads up regarding the Mishil KILL-ORDER.She must be hurting inside big time,to see Bidam lie to her over such an important matter.
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chuck
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Post by chuck on Nov 10, 2009 22:33:45 GMT -5
I'd still like to know just what Bidam wanted to know: why didn't she burn that letter? Does she think people would flock to her standard because the King wanted her killed? In that kind of society, the only thing that matters is that she disobeyed the King. It can only harm her cause to have it known.
Bidam, this is just what I was expecting. There would come a time when he had to choose between killing his mother, or saving her. It's not at all surprising that he chose to save her. I don't think that means he's gone over to the other side, though. I hope not, anyway. He just doesn't want to beat her that way, by disgracing her.
As for Mishil, I don't think she was trying to win Bidam over by not killing him during the coup. I think she really just didn't want to kill her son. And it caused her coup to fail.
I'm surprised no one jumped in front of the arrow for Deokman. I guess it happened too fast.
Is the King incapacitated? I mean, has he officially abdicated?
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 11, 2009 1:00:07 GMT -5
It just goes to show that guessing what's going to happen usually doesn't. That's one of the great things about this drama. I know I expected someone to take the arrow for the Princess but instead it was the dagger. Deokman did say that her arm was in the tiger's mouth and she'd have to thrust it deeper. King Jinheung used the dagger to kill the tiger. It certainly saved Deokman this time. Even if Mishil weaseled out of the coup somehow she sealed her fate by the assassination attempt. For the life of me I can't understand why Mishil or Seolwan didn't destroy that letter. King Jinheung gave it to Seolwan and he in turn gave it to Mishil. What was the purpose in keeping it? It doesn't make any sense. Also, why after reading it did Bidam get so emotional? I don't get it. Finding out he's Mishil's son would be more upsetting. I can't believe he betrayed Deokman either. He shouldn't have looked at it at all. Why didn't Sohwa ever tell Deokman that Bidam was Mishil's son? I think Bidam wanted to know any number of thing's. He had his hand on the pouch when he was about to question her. Perhaps he wanted to know why Mishil didn't get rid of the letter, why did King Jinheung want her killed and why did she throw him away? He did ask why she wanted him sent on that trip. I could be wrong but I find it hard to believe it was to protect him. She said he was an obstacle. It just seems out of character for her to all of a sudden care about his well being. I think she'd kill anyone that got in her way. She knew for some time that he was the child she abandoned and didn't make any attempts to reach out to him. She knew he was Munno's disciple therefore his fighting skills would be excellent. Wouldn't that make him valuable to her now even though he was of no use to her at birth? If Mishil controlled things for 40 years she'd be in her 50's or even 60! Chilsuk has been showing a displeased look on his face for awhile now and he admitted to Seokpum that he felt the same way about his life. Those two will probably remain loyal until the end which shouldn't be much longer. Mishil will die.
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Post by griffin on Nov 11, 2009 8:30:40 GMT -5
I think the king knows he just doesn't have it in him to deal with the crisis (he's also ill anyways) and simply trust Deokman to handle the situation since she has already demonstrated she has the ability to outmaneuver Mishil. Keeping that red letter ...hmmm *red*. Sentimental reasons? A keepsake of Seolwon's dedication to her? x.x I'm not surprised by Bidam's action, regards that letter. But he made a serious error by not being honest with Deokman inspite of the subtle warning she gave him. Ah well, Mishil chose a dignified exit and prevented anybody from being killed in the process. So would she be hailed as a martyr/heroine? I expect a grand funeral for her in the next ep. I kinda expect her last orders to her followers would be to follow Deokman. That or to support Bidam. Not sure if that would go down well with her sons. I'm expecting some action from the border too since the movement of those 20 thousand troops from the fort allowed the Paekche to move in. This will allow Deokman a more secure position to ascend the throne if she handle it well. More shakedowns within the ministries should be forthcoming. Anyway, I'm just guessing. I just wish though they would kindly stop using two word dramatic scenes. It's getting old. Imagine having a subordinate report an urgent situation using only two words : Fort so and so ..... fort so and so ..... If I were the CIC, I'll say : You're FIRED!!!
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Post by mugwump on Nov 11, 2009 21:21:52 GMT -5
Ep 49 and 50 Did anyone feel kind of flat about the way Mishil ended it? For me this was the first really disappointing episode in a long time. She kind of went out with a whimper. Her keeping the execution warrant still doesn't make sense to me. And why it was so connected to Bidam. Did Solwa think that if Bidam got hold of it, he'd destroy it? I can't imagine how it could have been more harmful to Mishil than the fact that she shot the Princess in front of everyone. How was Deokman planning to use it to turn Mishil's people over to her side? It would not have turned any of Mishil's loyal minions against her. And when Bidam showed it to Mishil, she thought to herself that it had found it's rightful owner. What did she mean by that? Why did she think Bidam should have it? I too do not understand why Bidam was so upset when he saw the warrant. So let's see how Bidam turns to the dark side now. The poor guy already has Yeongmang whispering poison in one ear. And Mishil stayed cruel to him to the very end, taunting his love for Deokman.
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chuck
Junior Addict
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Post by chuck on Nov 11, 2009 22:12:49 GMT -5
Mishil was devoted to a strong Shilla, it was her legacy, along with the King she served, and she didn't want it to lose any of its territory to Baekje. So she had to send the border troops back to the border. With that done, and most of her water cut off, it was just a question of time before she would lose the battle. She was doomed, and she knew it. And she was too proud to serve under Deokman or Chunchu, or to run away. So, only one alternative remained, and she took it. She could have gone down fighting with her remaining troops, but that too would have weakened Shilla with a restive Baekje peering across the border.
Is it certain that Bidam will rebel against Deokman? He may have historically, but it doesn't have to be that way in the drama. After Deokman tried to take Mishil back into the fold, I would think there would be no reason for Bidam to be bitter against her. But I guess someone has to provide a meaningful conflict, and Bidam is the most likely.
I'm not sure Mishil was being cruel to Bidam at the end. Her statement that he was trying to achieve a goal to win his love, instead of winning someone's love to achieve a goal, is simply a statement of her philosophy of life. She just considers that common sense. Bidam's course she viewed as weakness, and she imparted what she considered wisdom to him.
In spite of all the evil things she did, I was still sad to see her die. Ko Hyun Jung was excellent in the role, and is such a lovely woman . . .
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chuck
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Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Nov 11, 2009 23:39:00 GMT -5
I just wish though they would kindly stop using two word dramatic scenes. It's getting old. Imagine having a subordinate report an urgent situation using only two words : Fort so and so ..... fort so and so ..... That sort of thing always leaves me wondering if the translator is leaving something out. Yes, Fort so and so ---- what? Disappeared? Collapsed to the ground? Got up and walked away? Spit it out!
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Post by pilseung on Nov 12, 2009 6:42:27 GMT -5
Ep 49 and 50 Did anyone feel kind of flat about the way Mishil ended it? For me this was the first really disappointing episode in a long time. She kind of went out with a whimper. Her keeping the execution warrant still doesn't make sense to me. And why it was so connected to Bidam. Did Solwa think that if Bidam got hold of it, he'd destroy it? I can't imagine how it could have been more harmful to Mishil than the fact that she shot the Princess in front of everyone. How was Deokman planning to use it to turn Mishil's people over to her side? It would not have turned any of Mishil's loyal minions against her. And when Bidam showed it to Mishil, she thought to herself that it had found it's rightful owner. What did she mean by that? Why did she think Bidam should have it? I too do not understand why Bidam was so upset when he saw the warrant. So let's see how Bidam turns to the dark side now. The poor guy already has Yeongmang whispering poison in one ear. And Mishil stayed cruel to him to the very end, taunting his love for Deokman. Even Seolwan asked her why she wanted to keep it when he retrieved it for her recently from somewhere in the palace.Originally,he received it as an order from the King to carry out the execution.He gave it to her as a sort of pledge of loyalty towards her.I think she kept it as evidence of her greatness that she was effectively more powerful than the ROYAL King.She even had him killed after that.She had the loyalty of people who gave her overall power.She has always known that a person is only as powerful as the collective usefulness of the people that follow you.Like Bidam said,she should have been dead all this time.And she would have been erased from history because of the execution order.I think Bidam was upset because it meant his mom was meant to have been killed in the disgrace of an execution.Essentially,he has feelings for her as her son despite all that has been done against him.He felt that leaving it in Deokman's hands,should she decide to use it against Mishil,would have been too cruel an end for his mom.Awwwwwwwwww. Maybe Mishil said Bidam is the rightful owner because she hopes her legacy will get to live through him if he did manage to become King?(I believe there have been many instances where the child restores his/her parent's rightful status posthumously once the child becomes a person of great power.)I believe her last few words to him were to effectively guide him into pursuing her dream not taunt him.
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 13, 2009 2:13:12 GMT -5
Episode 50
Ko Hyun Jung did a stellar job playing the character Mishil. I will miss her. I think they set us up to feel sorry for her at the end. I think the writers knew how much everyone loved and hated Mishi and meant for us to feel sad at her departure. I certainly will miss her character but she was a wicked person. Just because she was beautiful and always had a smile on her face doesn't hide the fact she was evil.
It was out of character for her to simply give up. To this Mishil, I want it all or forget it. If I can't be the king, I quit. Deokman gave her the option to come under her wings which was very noble of her considering Mishil shot an arrow at her heart, staged a coup and blamed Deokman for it, tortured the Hwarang and officials to get a false confession, caused the death of Sohwa and kept the King and Queen locked in the palace. Those were just a few of the recent events. Sohwa had to run for her life with baby Deokman, live in a foreign land and almost died at the hands of Chilsuk, and by ordering Deokman to be killed, Princess Cheongmyung died instead.
Mishil couldn't even give Bidam a little bit of love at the end even if she had to fake it. She told him she didn't regret abandoning him and she never said she loved him. She had no remorse. That's ice cold. It's the least she could have done for Bidam. He just wanted to hear those words. There's no reason to lie on your death bed so I believe she meant what she said. What kind of mother leaves her infant on the floor because he's of no use to her and walks away never to look back? I don't think she chose a dignified exit, she lost and didn't want to face the consequences (execution for treason). She was not a heroine but a villain and should not be given a grand funeral. Everything she has ever done was not for the good of Shilla but for herself. She wanted a grand empire that she could rule. Seolwan asked her "Why now are you looking after the people and caring for them?" She said to Seolwan, "If I weaken the national boundary and the battle line with my own hands, then this Mishil will lose everything to Deokman." She didn't want any of Shilla's territory to be lost and be blamed for it in history. That's her ego. She didn't tell Seolwan and her followers to help Deokman. She said, "Prepare the next stage." Mishil used and bought people to achieve the level of power she had to be more influential than the King. All the men that were loyal to her were rewarded in some way.
Bidam will have to explain himself now. He runs out of the room, meets with Mishil several times and cries at her death. He knew what his mother was like but was mourning the loss of what could have been between them, if only for a moment, for closure, so he could forgive her for abandoning him. Why Deokman cried is another story. If Mishil hadn't caused so much pain, death and turmoil, I could understand Deokman feeling sad for the loss of a talented subject. I didn't agree with Deokman saying she might have been a nobody if it wasn't for Mishil.
I know you tried to explain pilseung, but it still doesn't make sense why the execution order wasn't destroyed and why Bidam was the rightful owner.
In history Bidam rebelled at the end of Queen Seondeok's reign and she hasn't been crowned Queen yet.
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