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Post by mugwump on Mar 21, 2012 20:40:54 GMT -5
I agree about the female leads. That's why they're both up for the Character Most in Need of a Good Smack Award. ;D One's a stereotypical victimized woman and the other's a smug brat. I hope they become more 3-dimensional as the show progresses. Even the hero is pretty dull compared to the Choi men and their political maneuvering.
CCH, on the other hand is already mesmerizing. Hats off to the actor who's playing him so well. As pointed out, so very different from the portrayal in Age of Warriors.
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Post by excelsior on Mar 21, 2012 21:12:02 GMT -5
It seems to be a prevailing problem of K historicals in general. It's as if they are contractually obligated to make the hero as clean and pure as possible. The Liu Bei syndrome. It potentially makes their shows very dull if they don't have colorful supporting players as foil. Take Wang Gun and it's noticable drop in quality after the monk king, a very interesting lead, dies, and we are left with Taejo saint. A more cerebral and diplomatic Wang Guhn with lofty but good ambitions would've been far better.
Maybe this is why Tears of the Dragon is probably the greatest ever. Both Taejo and Taejong were flawed heroes.
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Post by truth on Mar 21, 2012 21:15:08 GMT -5
It seems to be a prevailing problem of K historicals in general. It's as if they are contractually obligated to make the hero as clean and pure as possible. The Liu Bei syndrome. It potentially makes their shows very dull if they don't have colorful supporting players as foil. Take Wang Gun and it's noticable drop in quality after the monk king, a very interesting lead, dies, and we are left with Taejo saint. A more cerebral and diplomatic Wang Guhn with lofty but good ambitions would've been far better. Maybe this is why Tears of the Dragon is probably the greatest ever. Both Taejo and Taejong were flawed heroes. I'm pretty sure Kim Joon is going to turn evil later on. Kim Joon was the worst of all military dictators in Koryo. Taejong was a saint compared to Kim Joon. The reason Wang Guhn was saint in EWG was because he was actually depicted as a saint-like figure in Koryo's royal history record. I mean what kind of monarchy doesn't want to show their founder king as a saint? Goong Ye is recorded in the history book to be an evil as well, because Koryo's historical record was written in the point of view of Wang dynasty.
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Post by sageuk on Mar 21, 2012 21:51:13 GMT -5
Kim Jun was the worst? How so? I'm curious, considering the military dictators did alot to damage the country.
I hope they go the evil route. I've always been a fan of good guys gone bad stories
Oh hey, Alcheon is a king
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Post by truth on Mar 21, 2012 22:06:15 GMT -5
Kim Jun was the worst? How so? I'm curious, considering the military dictators did alot to damage the country. I hope they go the evil route. I've always been a fan of good guys gone bad stories Oh hey, Alcheon is a king Kim Joon and his sons opprssed Koryo citizens like no other dictators did before and he kept all the tributes from citizens that were supposed to go to the Emperor. He was so powerful that he ignored the Mongolian order to send Emperor Wonjong to Mongolia/Yuan to attend the Imperial Court of Yuan. When the Mongolians realized that Kim Joon had more power than the emperor, they ordered him and his son to come and attend the Yuan Imperial Court. Kim Joon ignored this as well and tried to kill off the Mongolian diplomat. He was also responsible for making the Sambyeolcho. You know, I'm beginning to think that they might not turn him evil at all. I think they're just gonna skip the citizen oppressing part and stealing tributes, and just show him as a proud hero who ignored Mongolian orders. And Yes, I've mentioned that Alcheon is Emperor Gojong like twice if you look in the earlier pages.
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Post by sageuk on Mar 21, 2012 22:12:30 GMT -5
I thought Cho'e U made the Sambyeolcho....or was that the Yabyeolcho, which was later made into the Sambyeolcho?
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Post by truth on Mar 21, 2012 22:15:27 GMT -5
I thought Cho'e U made the Sambyeolcho....or was that the Yabyeolcho, which was later made into the Sambyeolcho? Oops, I meant to say that he strengthened the Samyeolcho.
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Post by sageuk on Mar 21, 2012 23:31:51 GMT -5
Ep 10
Crybaby moe girl Wol-a ticks me off. Really? You're really going to make Kim Jun's efforts...all that blood and sweat....for nothing? SHAME ON YOU STUPID 8%-C#!!!!! SHAME! ON! YOUUU!!! I have a bad feeling about this regarding her future role...
As for the guy who will become Cho'e Hang (for those unaware, he changes his name to Hang later in life), he's also on me list for characters in need of a good smack. Historically, he along with his brother went to the southern provinces and entered Buddhist priesthood, but also led a gang of bandits that terrorized the areas he was in. This character will be bad news in the future
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Post by truth on Mar 22, 2012 0:12:40 GMT -5
Ep 10 Crybaby moe girl Wol-a ticks me off. Really? You're really going to make Kim Jun's efforts...all that blood and sweat....for nothing? SHAME ON YOU STUPID 8%-C#!!!!! SHAME! ON! YOUUU!!! I have a bad feeling about this regarding her future role... As for the guy who will become Cho'e Hang (for those unaware, he changes his name to Hang later in life), he's also on me list for characters in need of a good smack. Historically, he along with his brother went to the southern provinces and entered Buddhist priesthood, but also led a gang of bandits that terrorized the areas he was in. This character will be bad news in the future Wora is actually one of my favorite characters, and it looks like many Korean people feel the same way. She became so popular that fans asked the drama team to extend her stay in the drama and the drama team accepted it(it was on the news). Wora was originally supposed to die off early, but she is now going to be in the drama a lot longer. Yay! And Come on, you have to think on her shoes. I'm a guy, but even I can understand how she feels. She has a choice between living in a temple in the middle of nowhere with bunch of bald dudes who are forbidden to engage in any relationship with women and living in a nice home in the capital city under the care of rich family, where she is able to meet the lover Kim Joon everyday. Wora would of course choose the latter. Today's women would also choose to live as a maid in rich people's house in the city and dating boyfriends rather than living in a temple middle of nowhere. Choi Woo and Choi Sanbo are my other favorites so far. Another thing I like about the drama is the absence of warrior girls. I was tired of all the historicals with warrior girls fighting like 100 men at a time and winning. My least favorite character is the evil fat girl Nanjang. I want to smack her face so badly.
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Post by sageuk on Mar 22, 2012 1:20:08 GMT -5
You're right. Maybe I was being too harsh on her situation....still doesn't change the fact she does nothing but look cute and cry....but I don't get it....whats the appeal of her to viewers anyway? I personally think killing her off would have been a good move in order to do Kim Jun's start of darkness, but then again that's kind of cliche. Fans would probably lynch me if they saw these words... And maybe I'm just having selfish expectations and not seeing it for what it is.
A horrible thought just came to me....what if she becomes the mother of CHo'e Ui???
WHy do I have such harsh thoughts?
It is refreshing to see a show with no girls with swords. I don't mean to be sexist, but its a cliche that is overused to the point you might as well beat a dead horse. Gibving a sword to a girl doesn't equal good character....
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Post by truth on Mar 22, 2012 1:35:11 GMT -5
You're right. Maybe I was being too harsh on her situation....still doesn't change the fact she does nothing but look cute and cry....but I don't get it....whats the appeal of her to viewers anyway? I personally think killing her off would have been a good move in order to do Kim Jun's start of darkness, but then again that's kind of cliche. Fans would probably lynch me if they saw these words... And maybe I'm just having selfish expectations and not seeing it for what it is. A horrible thought just came to me....what if she becomes the mother of CHo'e Ui??? WHy do I have such harsh thoughts? It is refreshing to see a show with no girls with swords. I don't mean to be sexist, but its a cliche that is overused to the point you might as well beat a dead horse. Gibving a sword to a girl doesn't equal good character.... She is still gonna be killed off, it's just that she's not gonna be killed as early as it was originally planned.
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Post by MTR on Mar 22, 2012 14:27:44 GMT -5
Sageuk There is a marked difference though films like Gladiator ,Last Samurai and Braveheart actually have people believing this stuff happened and that is really bad ,the History Channel does not help things either and as such myths become taken as reality and history becomes altered . With dramas everyone knows what is up from the get go and many take time to research or ask people like Truth what really happened ?,Same with Japanese Historical's though they really need to look into that 47 Ronin story .
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Post by sageuk on Mar 22, 2012 15:02:42 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I don't really understand where you're getting at...so what you're basically saying is that if a movie supposedly based on history makes people believe it was true, its bad, but if people knew the history beforehand when watching the fictionalized history, its fine? The way I see it that makes it the audience's own fault for thinking it was true and not knowing the history, but hey, I'm one who likes to criticize audiences. I never saw these movies so I really can't say anything regarding them, but I am aware they are heavily fictionalized. Some even say they're just romanticized Hollywood cliche land, am I right?
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Post by TheBo on Mar 22, 2012 15:28:51 GMT -5
These are difficult questions, and I tend to lean one way or the other depending on how important I feel the information is AND the motivation I ascribe to the filmmaker or scriptwriter. If I feel they are actively trying to prop up a false perspective on something because they are ideologues, I tend to hold them personally responsible as craven liars. (Give people the truth, tell them what you think about it and trust them to decide for themselves.) The ones I respect most are the ones that say, at the beginning or end of a historical movie or drama, "This is a highly/slightly/totally fictionalized account of true occurrences, produced for entertainment purposes. You can find out more about "X" at...."
Yes, the viewer should KNOW that. But the fact is, if you see a picture, you tend to believe it, it's human nature. So filmmakers and writers should be careful, they have a sacred trust. (Yes, seriously.) ;D
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Post by mugwump on Mar 22, 2012 18:30:24 GMT -5
Just going back to the comment about K-drama heroes being too saintly and needing colorful support cast, at least in King Geuncheogo, I think the lead was pretty 3-dimensional. YeoGu had a lot of flaws, like all the characters, and that made him fun to watch. Then again, in Gyebaek, I think King Uija totally overshadowed Gyebaek as far as being an interesting nuanced character.
Maybe Korean audiences want to see clean and pure male leads and frail I-need-to-be-protected female leads?
On an unrelated note - I'm still getting the hang of all these characters - the young guy who has become CCH's new chess-playing buddy - he has a brother who we saw him talking to, and apparently his father is also in the cast. Which character is his father, and do they lean toward the Blue or the Red team (I tend to think of Choi Son #1 and #2 in terms of their polo colors).
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