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Post by jochicago on Mar 26, 2008 9:41:31 GMT -5
It seems to me that The Great King Sejong presents us with a world almost opposite to the one in Dae Jo Young. In DJY, the leader's chosen brothers are his closest allies, trusted and helpful. In GKS, one's royal blood brother's are one's greatest potential enemies, untrustworthy and not to be given any real work to do.
In DJY the hero created a new state and believed that serving the people honestly was the highest goal. That may be GKS' dream, but in his world the political leaders serve themselves first and hardly think of the people.
DJY was the world of action; GKS is a world of budgets and personnel, where the wheels of government grind slowly, if at all.
DJY was a world of warriors, where the sword was glorified and war a noble calling. In GKS the strongest image of war is the killings done in front of the 3 young princes, a brutal and traumatic scene, played over and over.
DJY was a world where even leaders could love; in GKS, the Crown Prince and his wife stare at each other with dislike on the evenings they are assigned to have sex and the Crown Prince lusts after the old king's concubine -- with pick-up lines that could be used in a bar today.
DJY was a world where advisors loved their masters; in GKS, the advisors try to stab each other in the back and are not really so fond of their masters, either.
Okay, I'll stop belaboring my point. The truth is that the world of GKS is far more realistic than DJY. The polical machinations could come straight out of Bush's government, along with the beauerocratic (sp?) slowness, inefficiency and corruption. The dialog that the Crown Prince speaks to the concubine sounds more like human dialogue from the 21st century than anything in DJY! Not to mention that DJY was a true almost super-human hero, while GKS right now seems like an amiable doofus.
I'm fascinated by GKS, but DJY was more inspiring!
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Post by kathleen34 on Mar 26, 2008 10:34:28 GMT -5
Such brilliant comparisons jochicago. I'm really quite weary of GKS right now. This far along in DJY I was looking forward to the next episode. Not so with GKS. Plus we have long subtitles that stay on the screen for 2.5 seconds and short ones that stay on for 6 seconds. This may be a more realistic presentation but it's boring. And forgive me for my ignorance but when does the GKS come into play. WHO IS GKS? By this time In DJY there were characters who I really understood and was drawn to. If it wasn't for AJK's wonderful summaries, I would be clueless as to what's going on. Having not seen AOW, I would think it held the same excitement of IYSS and DJY. I hope my attitude changes.  |
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Post by jochicago on Mar 26, 2008 12:05:58 GMT -5
Our hero -- the 2nd son of the king, the prince who keeps trying to help his older brother, the "amiable doofus" bookworm -- becomes the Greak King Sejong, according to more learned readers than I.
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Post by chigirl68 on Mar 26, 2008 12:32:30 GMT -5
Actually it is Choongyeong (Prince Chungnyeong) (yes, the bookworm) that becomes King Sejong. I believe he is the 3rd son.
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Post by kathleen34 on Mar 26, 2008 12:47:34 GMT -5
Thanks... that's what I thought ... kind of. I hope he eventually grows some facial hair. Right now he looks too pink and shiny... DJY was like that too. He was also cuter than Choongyeong . a very important historical fact.  Part of me was concerned that GKS baby would be the King. I guess we'll be watching this for the next 12 months or so and physical/emtional characterists will develop. I certainly hope so. |
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Post by teacher on Mar 26, 2008 13:03:20 GMT -5
Thanks, Kathleen- I was worried that I was alone in not recognizing even the main characters in this story. In DJY, after about 4 or 5 episodes I was able to distinguish at least some of the people.
Also here it seems that about 80% of the "palace people" are bad guys. I'll watch for a while,
but it really is a long hour every Monday and Tuesday night.
On a funnier note, discounting the fact that they are actors, it's interesting to see a few men in the service of the King who were also "government people" in DJY. They must have been older than Methuselah
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Post by ajk on Mar 26, 2008 16:33:04 GMT -5
I agree with kathleen, jo, those were some excellent and thought-provoking comparisons. But please, if you want to complain about George Bush, Todd Stroger, liberals, conservatives, or anybody else in today's government, there are plenty of talk radio stations and other websites for that. This board needs to be neutral territory; otherwise it can drift off course and get ugly on top of it.
That aside, I think you summarized it very well. DJY was set in tough times when a state deteriorated and crumbled. GKS is showing us the intrigue and the political ugliness of an established government (still new and shaky, but established). DJY took place in a time when heroes were desperately needed, but so far there hasn't been much opportunity for heroism in GKS. I'm sure we'll see plenty of heroism in GKS, but it will be a different kind than the more clear-cut military kind in DJY.
It's disappointing that people aren't reacting more favorably to the series so far, but I'm not surprised at what you all are saying. So far the series seems to be trying a little too hard to create mystery, to the point where it's leaving us lost and confused at times. I'm trying desperately to keep all of the characters straight so I get the summaries right, but it's tough to identify people. (If anybody--maybe one of our Korean friends?--manages to find one of those names-and-faces guides like Choko found for IYSS, PLEASE do post it here because it will help all of us out tremendously.) I think GKS is going to be much more sophisticated, PBS-type stuff and won't have the mainstream good-guys-bad-guys stuff we got with DJY. Personally I enjoy the political and intrigue kinds of stories, but they can be a tough sell to many people.
teacher, I sure had not noticed any DJY people in GKS; you have a much better eye than I do. The think I think is funny age-wise is that when we saw prime minister Ha in the first episodes, he seemed frail and old and not long for this earth, and now after Choongnyeong has aged by more than ten years, Ha doesn't look any older or more frail! Some more of that selective aging we saw in DJY.
P.S. Yangnyeong (crown prince) is first son; Choongnyeong (future KS) is second son; Hyoryeong is third son; Seongnyeong (we haven't seen much of him yet) is fourth son. The other prince, Kyoungnyeong, is the child of the king and consort Hyobin. That much I'm sure of.
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sheila
Senior Addict
Posts: 297
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Post by sheila on Mar 26, 2008 20:18:15 GMT -5
Ajk, I am enjoying the show. I am not so fond of 'action' movies and like to watch shows where you have to listen to the dialogue. GKS is intriguing. Just when you think you know a character, they show a different side to the person.
You mentioned that Choongnyeong is the second son. I think he was the third son. Whenever the royal family is lined up together, he stands after Hyoryeong. And I think in the first or second episode when the palace was invaded, someone (the Queen?) asked first if the Crown Prince was saved, then she asked about Hyoryeong and then about Choongnyeong. It struck me that even in a crisis the pecking order must be maintained!
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Post by soapygrams on Mar 26, 2008 21:15:02 GMT -5
 Sheila, asking about the safety of the princes in that order does make sense though it may sound sort of heartless. The CP would be the one to take the throne if the reigning king had been hurt/killed; the second son if the CP and King, and then if there were no others, the last son would become the King. So logically speaking, she asked in the order of succession LOL. It does make you wonder as to how she actually thinks/feels/loves? her sons. Was love even allowed? I must say, I do agree with both Teacher and Kathleen in that I am totally UNDERWHELMED by this drama. I like some action if it's necessary for the storyline, which it was in DJY; this show is boring to me and I have not kept up with it like I did DJY. Maybe it came on too fast after DJY so all of DJY's charm and emotions were still fresh and perhaps my expectations were too high for this show, at least the first PART of this show. 
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Post by Knov1 on Mar 27, 2008 2:08:12 GMT -5
P.S. Yangnyeong (crown prince) is first son; Choongnyeong (future KS) is second son; Hyoryeong is third son; Seongnyeong (we haven't seen much of him yet) is fourth son. The other prince, Kyoungnyeong, is the child of the king and consort Hyobin. That much I'm sure of. Choongnyeong is the 3rd son. I really like this drama. In many other historical dramas, the King appoints a minister to a position but you never get to see what the person does. In GKS, you do. You see the "behind the scenes" of politics and how the different offices work together. Things don't just magically happen because the King orders it. I'm somewhat surprised by the reaction to GKS because I thought more people would like it. I figured if viewers liked DJG, they'd like GKS as well. If you like action, there's action during this period of time but they've skipped a good chunk of it. There's still more action to come but I'm not sure how much the drama will focus on it. |
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Post by pilseung on Mar 27, 2008 7:23:59 GMT -5
I must say, I do agree with both Teacher and Kathleen in that I am totally UNDERWHELMED by this drama. I like some action if it's necessary for the storyline, which it was in DJY; this show is boring to me and I have not kept up with it like I did DJY. Maybe it came on too fast after DJY so all of DJY's charm and emotions were still fresh and perhaps my expectations were too high for this show, at least the first PART of this show. I think you will be disappointed if you are waiting for action in this drama.If you read up on Korean history,King Sejong was given the title 'Great' posthumously because of how he united the nation rather than for any particular conquest.He is famous for the Korean 28 letter alphabet which allowed less educated Koreans a means of written communication.[Chinese letters do not correspond well with the Korean language.]He,King Sejong was willing to put down his pride and dignity to prevent a war in his country.As a young prince,he did not have the ambition to take the power, but he wanted to make the people happy so he helped them within his powers. He believed strongly;where there is a will, there is a way. He disciplined himself hard. He studied from Confucius teachings, mathematics to foreign languages. He was well-prepared. With the powers in his hands, he never forgot his duties. In the face of the public good, he was willing to set his personal feelings aside even if it caused him great personal pain. He was courageous and, when called for, did not hesitate to make a bold decision. He was truly a good king and leader.Just my two cents. |
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Post by mikey on Mar 27, 2008 7:26:51 GMT -5
The truth is that the world of GKS is far more realistic than DJY. On another board, I commented about how I found the “Human Hunt” episodes in Dae Jo Young to be amusingly enjoyable. One female member good-naturedly chided me for being a “typical man” who enjoys death and carnage. And I could only respond that I’d long ago stopped taking DJY seriously, and that the “Human Hunt” episodes were, to me, rather like watching the old Warner Brother’s cartoons where Wile E. Coyote (Li Wen) was always getting outfoxed by Roadrunner (Dae Jo Young). It was violence that couldn’t be taken all that seriously. I also added, however, that if the “Human Hunt” episodes had been done realistically, I probably would have been horrified. Fast-forward to “Sejong,” and yup, I was horrified. Watching the king torture little Choongnyeong’s servant to death before the young prince’s eyes is the stuff nightmares are made of. But man, I’m sure happy that KBS seems to be taking things seriously for a change - though I’m also admittedly speaking as one of the small minority who didn’t like DJY (and who even quit watching altogether, with about two months to go, when the whole silly thing just became too tiresome for my tastes). So, I’m liking “Sejong,” but I’ll also agree that it’s starting slowly. It’s also got so many complicated characters that it’s still a little overwhelming. But, I recall how IYSS was criticized for starting slowly too, and it ultimately wound up as one of my all-time favorite historical K-dramas. So, I’m happy with “Sejong” so far. |
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Post by ajk on Mar 27, 2008 15:37:01 GMT -5
Forgive my error--I got second and third sons out of order. I keep doing that; it happened with the first episode summary too, and had to go back and modify that. Yes, Choongnyeong is third and Hyoryeong is second. Hopefully it's penetrated my bone skull this time.
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Post by ginnycat5 on Mar 28, 2008 18:29:05 GMT -5
Forgive my error--I got second and third sons out of order. I keep doing that; it happened with the first episode summary too, and had to go back and modify that. Yes, Choongnyeong is third and Hyoryeong is second. Hopefully it's penetrated my bone skull this time. Our hero is Choongnyeong, right? Isn't he the second oldest? The one who raises orchids looks younger and you're saying he's the 2nd son? jochicago, I enjoyed your analysis- thank you! |
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Post by ajk on Mar 28, 2008 19:35:48 GMT -5
Thank you, ginnycat--that's EXACTLY why I keep scrambling their order in my head. Hyoryeong does look younger; I'm glad I'm not the only one who was seeing that. Choongnyeong is the hero, but he's younger than Hyoryeong.
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Sheila, asking about the safety of the princes in that order does make sense though it may sound sort of heartless. The CP would be the one to take the throne if the reigning king had been hurt/killed; the second son if the CP and King, and then if there were no others, the last son would become the King. So logically speaking, she asked in the order of succession LOL. It does make you wonder as to how she actually thinks/feels/loves? her sons. Was love even allowed?
