Actor Kim Myung-min (YSS) speaks on Dokdo Issue

[ID]

Well, maybe you {Americans in general} shouldn't speak. Maybe actually try to be an Israeli, a nation of under five million or so, that is surrounded by much larger enemies on every side, that never goes a god damn day without someone dying from a bomb, or a gunfight, or a suicide bombing, or an attack by palestinian gunman, on a wife and her children. By suicide bombing a bus full of school children. Mines on every corner. I was there, in the country side. My uncle is the deputy minister of travel {or whatever the hell you call it} and a big shot in the military. And he took us in a van, with a f*cking UZI in his hand, because he doesn't know when some guys will start to shoot at us. My then-girlfriend, and current-fiancee, couldn't even believe that such a thing existed. And the Palestinians aren't the only bad ones. Nobody just comes up with bloodlust, out of nowhere. It was provoked, by those damn settlers, who take their land, and their olives, and their goats, without giving back. They don't even leave a freaking goat. Then when they get angry, theyhae walls built around their villages, which they have occupied for thousands of years. But nothing justifies blowing up school buses, and night clubs, and pizza parlers. Killing women and children, who have done nothing wrong. Shooting mothers, and their babies. Blowing up bombs in the middle of bar and bat-mitzhas. And then those Kahanist idiots {all Americans. There is not a single Israeli in the ranks of those bastards} show up, spilling goat blood, and dancing around holy sites, with their assault rifles. And in the end, who gets the blame? Israel does. And those leftist bastards, all othordox Jews, continue to ruin everything. They don't want fighting, yet they want to keep the illegaly settled land. They force young men and women to fight int eh army, but othordox Jews continue to avoid the draft, and they don't pay taxes. Taking advantage of a four-thousand year old text, in order to be above the law.

Yes, I am p*ssed off.

[ID]

donilpark said:

I'm quite amazed at your reaction.
As I've said, that single reference to Jews was about the fact that the atrocities done to them is better known than the one against Koreans.
I didn't related that to anything that goes on in the middle east, nor did I make a judgement about who's right or wrong.
Just chill. Once again, I apologize for having offended you, but I really hope you understood my true intention.

naw, naw, naw. You just don't get it. I am sort've drunk, and I am looking for an excuse to display my opinion on what is going on in the world today. Hope you don't take my replies personally.

[donilpark]

Ok, I take all that back and delete the problematic parts. Will that do?
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cause trouble.
Once again, I'm sorry. I guess I didn have to talk about this sensitive issue by making reference to it. Just forgive me for being insensitive.

[meowmeow]

I am just curios. How western europe could reach at current state (at least they have EU and shared money euro) after world war II.

How do they reach in a sense they can form economic community setting a side all the historical difference
and booldshed?

By the way, I am korean and currently living in US.

As long as we are conversation to be sensible and none-bigatory. We can have intelligent and meaningful conversation. I hope.

My worry is that this small island matter can be firecracker in Asia. Japan has also several dispute with China and Russian regarding other island in the North.

I think korean really care about what other country thinks. We learned lesson when you are not paying attention what's going on around you.
You can be serverly screwed.

Pacific war ended with Nuclear bomb. So does it make japan utlimate victim of war?

If Japan does not educate their young gneneration what they did wrong in World War 2, there is a big chance for the repeat of tragic history.

I am really curious about how europe could reach current state. I lived half of life in korea and half in US. In my experience, people in general are same. So all that booldy european history does not go away that easily.

You can see still that craziness in that world war I region.

sorry ID. this is my vent.

[ShawScope]

wow , emotions got out of control in this topic , that certainly wasn't my goal when I decided to ask the question.
I just think that a show about war that took place 500 years ago could be somewhat more objective that a wartime propaganda movie would be.( should we all still hate British because of War of Independence and War of 1812 ? and yes if you watch movie Patriot you will see similar one sided propaganda like tricks)
Japanese are already bad guys in the movie because they are aggressors , and they sure weren't nice to Korean people.
But do they have to resort to cheap tricks to make people hate Japanese ? Why they try to perpetuate hatred over what happened half a millennia ago.
It's mostly these unnecessary devices ( like double rape of mijin and daughter) that make me feel uncomfortable. I’d think that modern day Koreans can do without them as well.
The atrocities did happen and they should show historical ones. (mass murder of POWs. or merciless suppression of occupied people)
As for Japanese being ruthless , well who wasn't at that time ?
Why show it like it is uniquely Japanese quality ?
War is bloody and messy. Just before the invasion the Sengoku Jidai was raging in Japan , and they killed each other s just as easily.
At this very time the Wars of Reformation were going on in Europe leading into Thirty Years War and European population has been decimated.
I wonder what happened to the Jurchin civilians after Korean army raided the nomads camp, I'm pretty sure it would've been full of them.
I like the more objective view of Koreans in this show.
Thankfully they aren't all idealized or demonized.
You have range from 100% good person like YSS himself to
ruthless ministers of the court and merchants like Chun-su.
Even common people are shown capable of bad as in scene when they try to stone Mijin's daughter or how badly they treated returned POWs.
This show and AOW and Korean movies really mostly focus on the fact that worst atrocities against Koreans were committed by Koreans themselves.
From courtiers and emperors who think about power and money while people starve in numbers, and disregard national security.
To merciless, warriors like Won Kyun who doesn't think twice about slaying his own countrymen for mere suspicion, or ready to sacrifice them to reach his military goals.
It took YSS to say to his captains that this is not only peasant’s country but they, the noblemen happen to live in it as well, and as such they better do something about defending it. Really, there’s no one to blame in the total improperness of country to the war but the Koreans, and the show doesn’t spare anyone from the blame. It also gives credit to Japanese for much better military organization and preparations. And it shows some dimension to them.


ww2 happened just 50 years ago , yet Hollywood being mocked here was able to make calm and objective piece like Tora! Tora ! Tora ! and Midway ( which didn’t became too popular, I guess people want high emotions in their movies ).
As for movies depicting atrocities, I suggest you to watch Masaki Kobayashi’s trilogy
Human Condition starring incomparable Tatsuya Nakadi. It doesn’t have any gory details
of cut up cadavers, it shows how a good man put into this inhuman system created by the Japanese government tries to remain human. The man is first put in charge of the Chinese forced laborers and tries to implement a humane treatment and for that he is discharged and drafted into army and goes through cruel training designed to remove any sign of humanity out of soldiers, and at last he finishes his ordeal in the soviet POW camp. It is a very emotional movie, and one of the best anti-war movies ever made.
Another good movie is Taegukgi (Brotherhood) . A Korean movie about Korean War showing worse kinds of things human can do to each other from both sides South and North. People who were a victim of countless atrocities by the Japanese occupiers went on to commit similar atrocities against each other . It’s really said what people would do for stupid power and world dominations.


it turned out quite an essay. I have to thank anyone who read my rant to this line , it's a big job ;D
hopefully I didn't offend anyone by anything in it

[JPh]

Hi ShawScope

I'm not sure what exactly is your complaint against the portrayal of the Japanese in the show. You just said:

--------------------
"This show and AOW and Korean movies really mostly focus on the fact that worst atrocities against Koreans were committed by Koreans themselves.
From courtiers and emperors who think about power and money while people starve in numbers, and disregard national security.
To merciless, warriors like Won Kyun who doesn't think twice about slaying his own countrymen for mere suspicion, or ready to sacrifice them to reach his military goals.
It took YSS to say to his captains that this is not only peasant’s country but they, the noblemen happen to live in it as well, and as such they better do something about defending it. Really, there’s no one to blame in the total improperness of country to the war but the Koreans, and the show doesn’t spare anyone from the blame. It also gives credit to Japanese for much better military organization and preparations. And it shows some dimension to them. "
-------------------------------

Like you said, Koreans come off looking worse. They're blamed for corruption and unpreparedness. Speaking of cruelties, I think there has been many more scenes of Koreans on Korean cruelties on this show, far more. Like you said, during those times of history, world was cruel. As for Mijin's rape scenes, as you know Mijin is a fictional character. But what is not fiction is that Japanese often raided Korean coastal areas, raped, pillaged, and burned. They also kidnapped many Koreans and took them back to Japan. So many Koreans were kidnapped that it invariably left a strong genetic stamp on the Japanese as an ethnic group. Mijin's rape scene despite being a fiction, is under that historical context. It is also historic fact that during the Hideyoshi's invasion, Japan went on a murderous rampage throught their occupied territories. I thought the scenes of Japanese being savages, are very accurate under historical contexts.




But not all Japanese have been portrayed badly.

*********Possible Spoilers ***********************



I can recall the Buddhist priest advisor to Hideyoshi who tried to persuade Hideyoshi from invading Korea, but failing that, confronted Hideyoshi and was beheaded. What about those Japanese emmisories who tried to warn Korea that Japan was about to invade and that Japan was far stronger than Korea? General Konish is also portrayed positively - a warrior who was reluctant to go to war, but who was without a choice. There's even one scene where the disgusted Japanese command gathers and laments Korea's cowardly and inept military leadership who were utterly unprepared. They were probably wondering what happened to this once proud civilization. I thought that scene was very plausible and a very good scene.

[generaldu]

It is the occasional melodramatic manipulation of the program that rings false, not the degree of savagery which is definitely muted.

Those of us living in America, living in a relatively stable and wealthy culture and educated (to an admittedly uncertain degree) with sanitized history texts do not readily accept the savage violence that was universally commonplace in the past and remains too common in the present.

To put any depictions of savagery in context, it should be remembered that while the Korean and Japanese were fighting this war in the late 16th century, the Europeans were completing the first century of their military, cultural and economic conquest of the world, which continues largely unabated to this day.

[TheBo]

ShawScope said:

...It's mostly these unnecessary devices ( like double rape of mijin and daughter) that make me feel uncomfortable....As for Japanese being ruthless , well who wasn't at that time ?
Why show it like it is uniquely Japanese quality ?
...
it turned out quite an essay. I have to thank anyone who read my rant to this line , it's a big job

Thank you, shawscope, your remarks are a rant, but they really talk about things that I was trying to say (in my too short--but I was leaving the house--sorry) remarks. Yes, the Japanese were brutal in the past (too many times, I'm afraid) and yes, they don't appear to be too repentant--well, at least their leaders--but who among us does not come from a group of people who has not been a sinner in this regard?

Finally, can I please clear up one little misinformation that seems to be popping up in this forum occasionally? Mijin was clearly raped--or coerced into sex, it's not clear, but is there a difference, really?--by the Japanese. However, there is nothing in this show (at least so far in my viewing) saying her daughter got the same treatment. We only know that she married a fellow Korean national who was being held prisoner, too, and that she mourned his passing. So, the writers (and the Japanese) were not guilty of that double sin, at least.

Bo

[MasterCrabby]

I think i'ts fine to have a portrayal of people as "bad guys" in a drama. It's a TV show, people.
Let's face it, the Japanese made their bed with their past militarism and their racism. Japanese people know that their past cruelties have been severe and uncalled for.
We in the United States similarly know that the extermination of our Indians, and the horrors of slavery were a widespread disgrace.
Oddly, I personally feel no need to apologize to anyone, since I wasn't party to any of that brutality. That does not mean that crucial lessons on how NOT to treat our fellow humans can be put aside.
ID is right to be demanding respect. Jewish people seek success like anyone else, and there is no truth to the idea that they are in cahoots on things. As he says, there are passionate disagreements among the folks in Israel on policy and other things. Certainly, the Japanese can be said to be a more singularly purposed population.

[moreshige]

Hey, ID aren't you half korean?

[ID]

moreshige said:

Hey, ID aren't you half korean?

not the last time I checked. I am part Mongolian, though.

[donilpark]

Am I the only one on this board who thinks this show sometimes goes overboard with "anti-japanesm"

But do they have to resort to cheap tricks to make people hate Japanese ? Why they try to perpetuate hatred over what happened half a millennia ago.

This is the kind of stuff I wanted to point out.
For some reason, if Koreans say bad things about Japan, that's using 'cheap' trick to bring out rivalry and mistrust of each other.
And people can say something like this and get away from it easy.
I don't want to cause another potential emonotial debate by doing this, but suppose the same was said about the 'other event'. (you know which one I'm talking about) What would the reaction of someone who heard it be?
In people's minds, unconsciously or implicitly, they seem to think that what Koreans had to suffer is not worthy to be reminded of or that Korea's just whining for it's small, petty misfortune. Or, as I said earlier, it may simply be that it's not that well known. But whatever the cause, the fact is that it's not considered as all that important, and the Japanese evil was all too well forgiven and hidden. This is the important part. Japan got away from it so freaking easily.
And that's the point I was trying to make.
Korean's fury at Japanese atrocities is not anything less than that of the 'other group's' at Germany's. What Japan did was not any less brutal and inhumane either. I know this as a fact from my interaction with Koreans as well as from my studies.

If anyone knows any better about this and is telling me that this indeed is the case, that what Koreans suffered is nothing compared to the other one, than I'll just shut the hell up. I have nothing more to say if that's the case.
If anyone is telling me that I shouldn't poke into someone else's business, because it's not my own, like I shouldn't care about tsunami in SE Asia because it's none of my business, then I'll shut the hell up again.

And to Sawscope, it's not just that Koreans are trying to hate Japan for no reason, so the media spread the propaganda against Japan for the heck of it. Japan is still denying all that they have committed, and are still trying to justify these, even now. In fact, they are victimizing themselves. If they came out with sincere apology and atonements, then Koreans (and others) would also forgive, even though forgetting about it is another matter. But with the way they claim Dokdo or the way politicians, including the prime minister, pay homage at the shrine of Yasukuni, or the way these distorted history textbooks are being produced and endorsed by these extremist rights, or saying that the comfort women were voluntary prostitues, against the clear evidences from documents and testimonies, it's all so obvious that Japan has no thought of guilt or intention of bringing peace and making reparation.
That's what this is about. It's Japan's attitude that infuriates Koreans and Chinese alike. Yes, what's happeend has already happeend and cannot be undone, but at least, Japan should show some guilt of shame. And we see none of that.
This is the problem at hand.

[pakyownage4eva]

I think the Japanese still haven't given an official apology for their war atrocities. Remember the 300,000 chinese they murdered in the city Nanking? I don't think the government has apologized for that yet---in fact, I think it still denies it to this day.

Quit whining about anti-Japanese in the show. I think all their heinous barbarity during their occupations speak for themselves. I am not saying two wrongs make a right but this is nothing compared to what they did when they invaded Korea/China. It probably isn't even exaggeration, knowing what they did to countless numbers of civilians, women, children, even infants and fetuses...

[JPh]

I think we should stick to discussing the drama and try to stay away from political stuff. There's lots of other sites for that. Obviously, if we had the Japanese Samurais as gentle people who were kind hearted to Koreans when they were visiting Korea, there wouldn't be a story for a drama, would there?

[MasterCrabby]

JPh--I disagree. People post compelling stuff when they feel unencumbered by focus. Besides, Kim Myung-Min himself hinted that YSS was a dry person with no self-interest. This means that we have to explore outwardly on the implications of the man's effect on his world. Realistically, can we avoid corellary politics through history, and grasp the meaning of this story?