True Won Kyun of history (spoiler)

[moreshige]

Won Kyun in the history books was responsible for getting over 200
of the korean ships destroyed by the japanese in 1597. YSS was in prison at the time.

[Hachiman Taro]

Yes, in addition to nearly getting the fleet wiped out there are a few other details I've read and it will be interesting to see how they play it in the show. Apparently Kyun was seriously drunk during his disastrous naval battle which points to the fact that he had a serious drinking problem. Another interesting detail is that that was the one naval battle that Konishi Yukinaga personally took command of the naval forces instead being one of the leading army generals---perhaps he knew when to pick his spots, given that Yi Soon Shin was out of the loop in jail at the time.

[JPh]

And the aftermath of the disasterous command by Won Kyun, was that only 13 ships were left for Yi Soon Shin to take re-command. With only 13 ships, Yi routed the Japanese.

[moreshige]

Guest-JPh said:

And the aftermath of the disasterous command by Won Kyun, was that only 13 ships were left for Yi Soon Shin to take re-command. With only 13 ships, Yi routed the Japanese.

I read that it was only 12 ships that were saved by one of YSS's former naval commanders. Apparently, he had the good sense of not following Won Kyun's orders. Otherwise, history would have turned out differently.

And as soon as YSS got reinstated he took his 12 ships as well as command of the Ming navy for his final battle.

[P]

Yes. With 12 ships he won a battle against a naval force over ten times his size-he defeated 133 Japanese ships.

this guy's my hero

also, wasnt Won Kyun beheaded was captured when he tried to escape on land?

[guest]

Won Kyun lose because of General Kwon(Gwon) Yul's

command. Won Kyun had knew his force would lose,

but he fought, and losed.

Kwon Yul was also a hero in Imjin war.

He is well know by Heng Ju battle. (Heng Ju is name

of mountain fortress located western part of Seoul.

-Heng Ju sanseong)

But on that time, Korean didn't think difference

between army and navy, so [general] Kwon Yul

could command him.

[TheBo]

Thank you, guest. Are you always the same person posting under that moniker? You always seem to have such interesting and sometimes informative posts. I wonder, wonder, wonder who you are... I know! The ghost of YSS visits us! No, wait, it's Mi-jin!

Come on. Who are you? Don't be shy.

Bo

[Legendary]

Muskets vs. ROCKS! At battle of Heng Ju!!

[Legendary]

Heng ju another word for apron. I dont know the exact details, but I know this much; at that time YSS is in prison, and the Japanese launch an invasion of a coastal region, dont know exact location, general Kwon Yul is aware of the situation and informs the administration (gov.) for assistance. No aid is sent! Gen. Kwon Yul rallied the peasants of town near the area, and they defend against the invaders with ROCKS! The women carried the rocks in their aprons while the men threw them at the invading army. Obviously there was some strategy imployed by gen. Kwon Yul. They must have used the fortress which was located on a mountain allowing the defenders the advantage of higher ground. Muskets vs. ROCKS!, organized trained soldiers vs. PEASANTS. What a glorious victory! Correct me if im wrong, and if anyone has any details regarding this battle please tell me!!

[florel]

I dig this thread out from dust.

I'm waiting for Mr. Moreshige's historical dissertation on Won Kyun. ;D

[moreshige]

florel said:

I dig this thread out from dust.

I'm waiting for Mr. Moreshige's historical dissertation on Won Kyun. ;D

Florel, I feel flattered like Yu Song Ryong being encouraged by that poetess. But I feel imtimidated by the length of a dissertation.

For the sake of the truth I'm willing to walk along Yu's path. haha

Won Kyun's first demise during the war occured when he misjudged 90 Japanese ships that were lying off the port of Busan to be nothing more than transport vessels. When a further 350 ships were seen, Won kyun realised too late that something serious was happening. YSS by then had already put his navy on alert. Sadly however, the next morning it was discovered that Busan had fallen.

Busan and the area around it, we have to remember was under Won Kyun's jurisdiction along with Pak Hong. (Cholla was under YSS and Yi Ok-ki) And as I mentioned before on another thread, Pak Hong had fled the scene.

Just to give you a visualization of the situation, Kyongsang province covers the southeaastern area of Korea while Cholla province covers the southwest. (Busan or Pusan is a port city in Kyongsang province).






That first invasion that started with Kyongsang province proved to be the Japanese trump card. And as we will see, the Japanese eventually succeded in capturing the entire penninsula. Within a month after Busan fell, Konishi and his spearhead division had already reached Seoul and the gates of Namdaemun (southern gate in seoul). There were 10 divisions with a total army strength of about one hundred and sixty thousand Japanese troops.

What the drama doesn't show enough was the utter destruction of Choson society. Famine, disease and death was the running theme in every province. But suprisingly, Cholla province went virtually uscathed in the first invasion thanks not only due to YSS but also to other local leaders in the area. The most notable were men like Kwak Chae-U and Kwon Yul. But the 2nd invasion in 1598, even Cholla wasn't safe and that's because of a combination of Won Kyun's incompetence and the absence of YSS. (I'll talk about this later)

In the entire war, had the Japanese first invaded Cholla province instead,the course of history would have been quite different as you can imagine.


The Korean ground troops were no match for several reasons:

1.) The Japanese had better close hand-to-hand fighting skills which was a reflection of over 100 years of constant civil warfare. Choson society more or less enjoyed relative peace aside from the Wako pirate invasions and the northern border clashes with the Jurchen. As you see in the drama, YSS was much concerned over this. He said as I quote from the drama, 'Even a child from that country can handle a fight with 10 of our men. So, how are we going to fight against over a hundred thousand adults?'

2.) The underestimation of Japanese firearms made famous by the korean general Shin Rip's curt and arrogant historical answer to Yu Song Ryong, (You'll see this in the drama too) 'Even if they have muskets, they can't hit anyone with them.'

3.) Korean troop organization was very poor according to Yu Song ryong. He later proposed to adopt a Chinese model of division of smaller companies. A typical Japanese center unit had a left and right guard as well as a rearguard while Korean troops were amassed in one company.

4.) At least in the first stages of the war, Korean troops in each and every battle were ridiculously outnumbered. (my own observation)

Okay, I'll stop here for now before I depart too much away from Won Kyun. I only give this background info to realize the significance of what Won Kyun's misjudgement and Pak Hong's cowardice had led up to.

[florel]

moreshige said:

Florel, I feel flattered like Yu Song Ryong being encouraged by that poetess. But I feel imtimidated by the length of a dissertation.

For the sake of the truth I'm willing to walk along Yu's path. haha

What ? Are you identifying yourself with the Great minister Yu ?
How audacious you are ! ;D ;D ;D

WOW, so you are writing a history text as Yu Sung-Ryong did. Bravo, Moreshige.
Your work is great.

[moreshige]

I must add YSS's own conclusions without naming any names (but we know about the first few crucial moments of the war. And no one could have said it better:


"...but in my opinion the enemy attacks fiercely, trampling our fair land under iron feet, because we allowed him to set foot on our shores instead of fighting him at sea....Had our captains of war stationed along the coast of Busan and Tongnae maintained their warships in formation at sea, menacing the enemy's flank with surprise attack and feigned retreat....the catastrophic national disgrace would not have reached to this depth."


It really saddened me when I read this

[luvarchfiend]

florel said:

What ? Are you identifying yourself with the Great minister Yu ?
How audacious you are ! ;D ;D ;D

WOW, so you are writing a history text as Yu Sung-Ryong did. Bravo, Moreshige.
Your work is great.

sorry for going off topic here but.....florel, i just luv the way you say things, the sentiment and the wording. always a pleasure.

**********************************************

on topic, thanks moreshige for the factual information. i have always disliked the way won kyun has been presented in the series, so different from the real man.

[moreshige]

One aspect of Won Kyun's character that the drama seems to portray accurately is Won's blood-lust for chopping off enemy heads whether they were dead or alive. After one of YSS's captains cut off three Japanese heads from an escaping vessel, the captain reports to YSS, '...an unknown naval officer of the Kyongsang Right Naval Station commander [Won Kyun] came riding on a fast boat and robbed us of one of the heads by threats....'

To be fair, the Japanese were also very adept at decapitating their victims much in the same way as certain native american warriors counted the number of scalps as a indication of valor. At first the Japanese sent ears to Hideyoshi but later sent heads as "proof" of their successes on the battlefield. Of course, as the drama and the history books atest, many of these severed ears, noses and heads came from Chosun commoners which included women and children.

There's a huge burial mound called the Mimizuka in Kyoto today that holds the noses and ears cut from tens of thousands of Korean and Chinese (Ming soldiers) victims.

The Mimizuka holds only a fraction of total severed heads.
For the total number of counted Korean heads we go to a Japanese source. Okochi Hidemoto writes in his Chosen Ki that they have taken 185,738 Korean heads and 29,014 Chinese ones during the war.

As for YSS's side, YSS had ordered his men not to spend time severing their victims' heads because it was too time consuming.
YSS writes, '......I promise to recommend those who fight best by killing the living enemy or by shooting as expert marksmen even though they cut off no heads of the enemy dead....' As a result, YSS's head count was much smaller than Won Kyun's when it came time to send the heads as proof of the degree their victories to King Sonjo.