K-pronunciations

[jasmine]

why???

1. Jang Geum --- is always spoken as "Jang Geum-ma" in the series

2. Ming Yi - something like Myung Yi

3. Gun Ying - Geum Yeung


there are still so many names that's read differently... is it the wrong english translation in the subtitle?? or the romanization in Korean...

[djanggum]

Jang geum is the right name. It's just that in korean, when you call someone by their name, you add an "ah" or "yah"

[jasmine]

but is the romanization still jang geum?

*romanization - how u spell out in English the K-syllables

[guest]

Jasmine,
1. Jang Geum --- is always spoken as "Jang Geum-ma" in the series
2. Ming Yi - something like Myung Yi
3. Gun Ying - Geum Yeung

Koreans have used Chinese characters for hundreds or thousands of years. We still use mixed characters of Chinese and Korean characters in most formal documents such as birth certificates.
Though the meaning of the characters are the same, pronunciation is different. Jang Geum is the Korean pronunciation.

Jang Geum are often called Jang Geum Ah. As noted earlier, Ah or Yah are usually appended to call a person. They are usually of lower class socially. In this case, JG is younger and lady Han will call her Jang Geum Ah. JG will never call Lady Han, "Ma Ma Neem Ah".
-FC

[jasmine]

They are usually of lower class socially. In this case, JG is younger and lady Han will call her Jang Geum Ah. JG will never call Lady Han, "Ma Ma Neem Ah".

oh that is quite interesting to note!!! Thank you!!!

[djanggum]

LOL. If she were to call Lady Han "Ma Ma Neem Ah," that would be soo weird. Almost disrespectful...

[jasmine unlogged]

i have another question...

if i were to write and read(in English) the korean name of LYA, it would be "ee"-"yeong"-"ae"... but why is it that it is now trasformed as "Lee"... why not "See" or "Bee"... another example also is the surname "Park", we can write it in korean as "Pak", but we read it as "Park" in English...why not "pask", or "pank"

hehehe... if u understood what am i trying to say, hihihi.... pls answer me...

[guest]

Jasmine,
You are correct in a way you spelled out LYA phonetically. I think the reason why most use Lee instead of "ee" is for historical reasons. If your parents used Lee, then you would naturally use the same Lee even though no Korean would call you that way.

Last names usually are historical. First names are phonetic and they are usually more accurate in the way it sounds.

Korean president calls him self "Roh", but it is not "Roh". It is more like "Noe". He too is probably stuck by historical constraint.

It is difficult to phonetically transcribe all Korean characters into English and also there are many different ways to transcribe them. Due to this confusion, they standardized many characters (mostly last names) and now they are stuck with them. Here are some typical last name and their sounds.

Park -> Bahk
Kim -> Ghim
Lee -> Ee
Choi -> Chae
Kang -> Gahng

Reading road signs in Korea written in English is very confusing indeed.
-FC

[jasmine unlogged]

thanks for that info... i really can see that the korean alphabet is not just letters just spelled out and read as it is, but it's also about history.. that's why it is oftentimes very difficult to quickly adapt and learn this language...

[kiparang]

I tried to stay out of this, hoping somebody would give really good interpretation of this seemingly confusing issue. "Guest" did a pretty good job but some additional explanation seems necessary.

Hangeul(Korean alphabet) is the probably the most clearcut and succinct alphabet the world has ever seen:there is only one way to pronouncing each letter. Except a certain case which is very rare and does not apply here so I will omit explanation to avoid further confusion.

The confusion comes from obstinacy of some members of families with certain names, who would not comply with standardized written and prononciation regulations. One of the regulations('du-eum beopchik' in Korean) is:words cannot begin with 'r' sound. According to it you should write(and pronounce) your name Yoo, not Ryu; Yi, Not Ree, etc. But some members(not all) of Yoo(Ryu), for example. refuse to comply with it and write and pronounce their name 'Ryu'. (There is an actor named Ryu Jin who starred in "Summer Scent" and "Seodong-yo")

Writing you name in English is a totally different matter. Some Koreans simply like to spell their family name in English way.
Park instead of Ba(h)k or Pa(h)k(There is no 'r' sound in the Korean name): Lee instaed of Yi or Ree.

Foreigners learning Korean do not need to pay too much attention to this matter. You just pronounce a Korean word as it is written. It is simple as that. That is beauty of Hangeul.

Hope that above be of help.

[TheBo]

Everyone has been so helpful, I'm always so impressed with how people help each other. I would add another note to the use of the suffix "ah" on familiar names. If you watch historical dramas, people usually call more senior people by their titles rather than their names--even if you happen to be that person's mother. However, in modern dramas, people are sometimes addressing an older or more senior person who has no relation to them--they cannot call them grandfather or elder aunt or whatever. Also, you may be just speaking to a person with whom you have a more formal relationship, even someone you are dating but not very close to. In that case, you add a suffix pronounced, "ssi" or "she". I believe it roughly translates to the English, "Mrs" or "Mr." So if someone met my father, in America, they'd call him
"Mr. Brown," but in Korean, were he to be using his English name in the Korean style for some bizarre reason (wow am I getting convuluted here), they might call him "Brown Raymond-ssi". (We're stepping out of the "ajussi" and "ajumma" range, here, I know you'd usually use that for strangers and even people you know but are more formal with.)

LOL. I know I'm gonna get hit on this one. Hit away.

Bo

[xelaevoli un]

thebo said:

"Brown Raymond-ssi". (We're stepping out of the "ajussi"e
LOL. I know I'm gonna get hit on this one. Hit away.

Bo

The wedding presenter (I forgot what they're called...it was some politcal man who oversaw the wedding proceedings) ...called me "Poston Ken's Melissa" or something equally jumbled. ;D

Totally confused me when I heard that in the midst of all the Korean speaking! LOL

M

[kiparang]

Folks, as I said in my previous post, reading Korean words is extremely simple. Just read them as they are written. What looks like confusion is no confusion at all.

As for proper use of 'ssi' and other honorifics, Bo, you are stepping into a dangerous territory, a quagmire---something similar to the war in Vietnam or should I say the war in Iraq. ;D

First of all, I wouldn't call your father 'Brown ssi': it does not sound respectful enough in addressing a gentleman who may have reached a certain age;it sounds even disrespectul. I would call him 'Brown seon-saeng-nim.' ('seonsaeng' literally means 'teacher', similar to Japanese 'sensei.')

Somebody could write a whole book about proper use of honorifics in the Korean language. Especially, about proper use of such words as 'ssi', 'seonsaeng(nim)' 'ajumma' and 'Mr' and 'Miss' as loan words. For example, there are miles of difference in connotation between 'seonsaeng' and 'seonsaeng-nim'. A thirty-something stylish lady would not appreciate being addressed as 'ajumma' although she is already married. If you are a twenty-year old man and address a man of thirty by 'Mister...(as loan word)' you may have a major fight in your hands. It could be a very humorous book.

Koreans know how to use honorifics by a certain age. As for foreigners' faux-pas, Koreans are not only understanding but will appreciate their attempt to speak Korean. Really. So don't be discouraged. (Sorry to butt in, Bo. I enjoy reading your posts very much. )

[TheBo]

xelaevoli said:

The wedding presenter (I forgot what they're called...it was some politcal man who oversaw the wedding proceedings) ...called me "Poston Ken's Melissa" or something equally jumbled. M

Okay, so the million $$ ? is--who is this Poston Ken, and did he give you away intentionally? Is he really a "Post-it"? LOL.

Bo

[TheBo]

You're not butting in Kiparang, you were part of the discussion already. ;D

You're right, it is confusing, but I did want to point out the difference between "ssi" and "ah" because we hear both of them so frequently on the modern dramas. Even if I didn't get it quite right, LOL. Thanks for your additional information about terms we also hear.

About using "ajumma" -- I notice many times young men using it to refer to equally young women on the dramas, especially, it seems, if they don't like the girl. In the drama "Full House" with Bi, for instance, he calls the girl who continually harrasses him ajumma (but then, she calls him and also his friend/her suitor ajussi, too), and also on "Mr Goodbye" the young protagonist male hotelier calls Lee Bo-young ajumma. These are people in their 20s, I believe. It seemed odd to me because I always think of these terms as being similar to calling someone "aunt" or "uncle" as a term of respect, and/or used for referring to older people who are not relatives but are part of the family, like referring to your brother's wife when you are both in your 40s or 50s.

As you say, it's confusing to nonKoreans but that really doesn't matter. Koreans know what to say. We just try to keep up.

Bo

PS - My poor father wouldn't know if anyone was being disrespectful or not, LOL--he'd just be happy they were trying to communicate with him.