sekeremaker
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Post by sekeremaker on Nov 5, 2008 14:39:51 GMT -5
I've said it before, the CP is a VERY complicated individual. As mean as he is, he still has enough space in his heart to love...truly, deeply love. He clearly doesn't care what happens to him. He's not afraid of any punishment, he doesn't care about the throne, he doesn't care if he's banished or beheaded. He's just SO desperate to save his woman, that he's trusting her life to his father. If the royal physician can save her, he will do whatever it takes. Everyone who ever cared about him is gone or going and he can't afford to lose her as well, the only one he can "come home to" and the only one he can be a sweet guy with.
He has known all along that he was being an SOB, which was probably self-protection. Besides, he thought it was his right since the throne was his. Now that the throne and supporters seem to be slipping away from him, he has to admit that he's been a bad boy. He confesses to Auri that his father, who says he can't give him up, is the only one who can't see him as a screw up.
I hope smallpox is not a part of the reason why Auri collapsed.
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Post by oasis6107 on Nov 6, 2008 5:23:24 GMT -5
I understand the desire to have the eldest son inherit the throne, but Queen Wongyeong must be the only one who doesn't see that Yangnyeong is not fit for the throne. How many times has she disowned Choongnyeong? He has never spoken to her like the CP has. He's a good son to her just like the other two princes. I dont think the queen is the only one who doesn't know CP's not fit for the throne. I think it's quite the opposite. She knows *very* well that her eldest son isn't someone that much trustworthy. Then, why hide these feelings so throughly? Put it this way. Queen Wongyeong's brothers were killed in the political conflict, and it was Taejong who eventually sentenced them to death. What's more, Taejong gained his throne by killing his younger brothers and forcing Jeongjeong, his older brother, to surrender his place to him. Not only Taejong's brothers, but numberless people who disagreed to or got in his way were also slaughtered. Now, think of all the terrible resentment the queen would be feeling towards her husband because of the murder of her brothers and the fear of any feud taking place among her very own sons. She would certainly not let anything like that happen in the first place, wouldn't she? It's not that the queen only cares about the CP or does not know how much a good son Choongnyeong is to her. After all, she's the mother of both of them and would probably know each son's characteristic more than anyone else. She certainly knows the CP is a bit of a bastard and Choongnyeong would be a much better king. It's just that she desperately wants to avoid any bloodshed in the family. That would probably be the ultimate reason for her to be dead icy towards Choongnyeong.
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Post by jojo on Nov 6, 2008 9:28:32 GMT -5
I also think the Queen is extremely fearful of a bloody battle between the CP and Choongnyeong. Even though the CP has admitted he's been bad, he did threaten Choongnyeong that 'this wasn't over.' I wonder if it will get to the point that the Crown Price just gives up his title. He lost a lot of 'muscle' when he lost his supporters: Gim Hanlo, Yi Sookbun and the others. (Which reminds me, whatever happened to Yi Sookbun?) Between that and the verbal bombardment, perhaps he will go quietly. Thanks for your comments sekeremaker and oasis6107! It's nice to have new contributors.
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 6, 2008 12:36:47 GMT -5
jojo, sekeremaker and oasis6107, I felt the same way about the Crown Princess. I think she is so hurt and feels so alone that she vented on Princess Shim. She's been rejected by her husband and wasn't cherished by her own father. The CP isn't the only one losing everything. The CP is complicated. He's biting at the bit to be the King and his actions reflect his ambitions. For the first time I felt sorry for him watching him cry. Systematically he's losing relatives, friends and supporters. How he must hate his father. Choongnyeong suffered the same hurt when the King had his treasured attendant Jang Won beaten to death to "teach him a lesson". CP Yangnyeong is having an inner struggle between wanting the throne and wanting to lead a "normal" life. On one hand he doesn't seem to care what happens to him as long as he can be with Auri, on the other hand, he's been schooled all his life to be the next king. I think sometimes he might feel like Choongnyeong, wishing he hadn't been born a prince, but his ambition is stronger. I know the Queen is frightened for her sons and she has experienced the pain of losing so many of her family members. She has lived through the slaughter that put Taejong on the throne. She has voiced her animosity towards the King's brutality. She even blamed him for "having too much blood on his hands" as the reason Seongnyeong was ill and that they were being punished. I get frustrated by the King and Queen's "tough love". Choongnyeong isn't like Yangnyeong. I don't feel she needs to be so "icy" towards him. He can be reasoned with. The love may be on the inside but the lack of outward affection bothers me.
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Post by oasis6107 on Nov 8, 2008 6:32:14 GMT -5
As for that, Tinkerbell, I can't agree with you more. She certainly loves Choongnyeong on the inside but is extremely reluctant to show affection commensurate with her love. Maybe she dreads any battle breaking out between her sons so much that she even fears showing Choongnyeong the slightest amount of warmth. That is, she may know Choongnyeong's someone who can be reasoned with, but fears the others noticing this and getting to judge that even the queen has turned her back on CP, and it's clear as wildfire that this would increase all the tension. In a slightly different perspective, it might be just because the queen has had a very tough character from the start. I guess the witnessing of her husband's brutality and all the years she has spent in the austere palace have somehow toughened her up. But more than anything, Taejong's constant cold neglect would have been the most crucial cause to her complicated and somewhat twisted character. It's a pity she's obsessed to always appear imposing and nonchalant as a queen that she can't bear to reveal her softness even to her sons. I'm having trouble deciding who's the most complicated, the king or the queen or the CP.
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 10, 2008 13:10:33 GMT -5
I agree oasis6107, the whole royal family seem to be complex characters.
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Post by jojo on Nov 12, 2008 12:30:18 GMT -5
Ep 38 The Crown Princess tells how she feels about the CP and about the Queen: 'if I hadn't tried to be like you, I wouldn't have lost the CP!' I thought the Queen would have blown up on that remark! When the King tells the CP to leave the palace, I wasn't sure if he meant the CP lost his title, or if he was just tired of listening to the CP. Prior to throwing the CP out, the King said that he could no longer protect the CP, that he was on his own. I thought that the CP would have continued to fight to retain the thrown. So, Yangnyeong was the one to put up the posters! A bold move. I suppose when he asked the King to depose the Crown Princess, he was making one last move for the throne. If Taejong had deposed the Princess, perhaps he would have tried to fight to be the crown prince. His words to Hyoryeong were prophetic, 'tell the King I won't keep a single friend' and so be lonely like the King. He thought, however, that he would have Auri, but no! I can't believe she killed herself!!! So much for being there for him. I thought the 'evaluation' was strange. Why wasn't Hyoryeong also evaluated? Maybe 'evaluation' wasn't a good word to describe what was occuring. Anyhow,that turned out to be a minor bump on the road to being declared the new crown prince, but did show us how Choongnyeong was going to stick to his ideals.
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 12, 2008 14:34:00 GMT -5
EPISODE 38 There were a few very insightful conversations in this episode. The Crown Princess pouring her heart out to the Queen while the CP listens to every word. Later, the Crown Prince actually apologizes to his wife and tells her he was never happy. It was cruel but the Crown Princess knew this already deep down. It's a shame she feel in love with him and he apparently never loved her. After all that, I was surprised he went to the King to ask for her to be deposed. The scene at the lake between King Taejong and CP Yangnyeong was a rare glimpse into their feelings for one another. They are so much alike, a tough, callous exterior that hides the fact that they have a heart after all. Sad. I too was surprised it was the CP that plastered the posters around! I'm glad he admitted it before people were tortured. I was afraid that was going to happen. He was setting things up to be with Auri and she kills herself! Complicated woman. First she wants Shim On to expose the affair, then she doesn't, and then when the CP is doing everything he can so they can be together, she drowns herself?! I feel very sad for the CP right now. She was the first woman he truly loved. I like Meng Sasung, he is very wise. I hope he will be one of Choongnyeong's advisors. I felt his words to Choongnyeong in the Records Office were describing the King and the Prince. It was also good that Prince Hyoryeong heard them. I guess the Queen can relax a bit now. Her fears didn't come to pass. All her sons have moved aside for Choongnyeong without bloodshed. I still can't get over the fact that Prince Kyoungnyeong is trying to help Prince Choongnyeong! Hopefully he has given up his ambitions for the throne. Several times we've heard the statements about the King being lonely. I've seen this in other dramas as well. How sad not to be able to trust anyone. Sometimes I wonder which is better, being a royal or a peasant. It was a bittersweet moment but finally Prince Choongnyeong was installed as the new CP! I'm glad he didn't compromise his beliefs.
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Post by jojo on Nov 13, 2008 10:33:47 GMT -5
I like Meng Sasung too. Isn't he the one who rode the palace on a cow? He's a breath of fresh air amongst the stuffy ministers.
As for Prince Kyoungnyeong, we didn't get to see why he made the transition from seeking to not seeking the crown, if in fact he truly did so. I hope he has. Earlier on, his mother was pushing him to take the crown, which he a first detested. He recently made a comment to his mother along the lines of: you're not still persuing that, are you? He seems to have just given up on the idea.
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 14, 2008 11:38:01 GMT -5
I like Meng Sasung too. Isn't he the one who rode the palace on a cow? He's a breath of fresh air amongst the stuffy ministers. I think so too jojo. EPISODE 39 The Queen and Minister Park have been very cranky lately. I can't believe Yi Sun was getting whipped again. Why does the Queen want her to spy on the Crown Princess? I thought Minister Park wanted Choongnyeong to be the Crown Prince? What's with his attitude lately? Between the rain ritual and amnesty for prisoners, I'd like to see CP Choongnyeong do a rain dance. ;D
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sekeremaker
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Play Sekere...Be Happy!
Posts: 13
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Post by sekeremaker on Nov 14, 2008 12:36:09 GMT -5
So, now that Choongnyeong is King, does his mother have any rights as Queen Mother? Does she still have the power that she's had all this time?
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Post by jojo on Nov 14, 2008 15:30:39 GMT -5
sekeremaker - I think the Queen is still in the same position she has been; pretty much has power over the entire royal family. I'm surprised the Queen didn't learn anything from her 'training' of the former crown princess. The Queen needs to be more flexible and adapt to the new personalities of the Crown Couple. I think both Choongnyeong and Princess Shim would be amenable to learning the ways of being King and Queen without the harsh treatment. Having Yi Sun spy on the Princess is pretty mean! Talk about putting Yi Sun between a rock and a hard place. Besides that, Sun doesn't seem to have the right personality for spying. The Queen should have sent someone else. I thought Park was a little better than the run-of-the-mill minister, but apparently he is more interested in his position than in doing his job. (By this point in time many of the power-hungry ministers have been deposed or killed!) Park seems immensely jealous of Minister Shim. The end result is that Park likes to boss Choongnyeong around. tsk tsk tsk! What does Park think the end result will be? I was getting so tired of the King constantly calling Choongnyeong a fool. Why doesn't the King guide his son, or offer advice, or his point of view, or something?! If anyone would be amenable to guidance it's Choongnyeong. A great idea from Noh Huibong when he suggested the King visit Choongnyeong. And Choongnyeong was perfect in answering honestly that he was hiding behind the books, that he was afraid. I think this finally got through to Taejong, who finally offers some solid advice. When Taejong was at the ancestral shrine, he seemed to be more relaxed than ever, and, ta da! the next day he shows up with the royal seal. Yay! ;D
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 14, 2008 19:22:09 GMT -5
I agree about the Queen jojo. I believe that power will diminish when Choongnyeong becomes King but I think she will still have influence. Can't you just see the Queen Mother still telling Choongnyeong what to do or not do? I guess the King is still playing hardball with Choongnyeong. He'd rather see him struggle to make decisions than give him advice. That would be too easy. Even though Yi Sun has been put in a undesirable position, maybe it's good she was sent to spy. She has deep feelings for the Crown Prince and Princess so hopefully she will only report good things. I just hope she doesn't get whipped again.
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Post by jojo on Nov 14, 2008 20:45:49 GMT -5
So, now that Choongnyeong is King, does his mother have any rights as Queen Mother? Does she still have the power that she's had all this time? I read your comment again, which made me think about the ending line by King Taejong: I'm giving you the royal seal; now you are the fourth king of Joseon. I took that to mean that Choongnyeong will be the next king, but hasn't yet been officially been installed, which would mean the Queen is still in charge. But that's a good question. Perhaps she would still have some rights being the elder woman in the palace, but wouldn't be involved in the day-to-day activities. On the other hand, it may come down to how assertive Princess Shim will be as the next Queen.
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Post by jojo on Nov 17, 2008 7:37:51 GMT -5
Ep 40 Huh?!? Taejong really is abdicating the throne?! I totally missed the boat on that one. Well, make that Taejong sort of gives Choongnyeong the throne. As the episode moves along, Taejong has the ministers mystified (& me too). In the end it looks like he is holding on to the military to subdue the ministers, more so than Choongnyeong. Even though the ministers are against attacking Tsushima Island, it may be a good idea to stop the 'pirating.' I can see where Taejong thinks it's premature to hand over the military to Choongnyeong. But it looks like Choongnyeong got Taejong on the personnel front, when Choongnyeong smoothly out maneuvers Jo Malseng. ;D
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