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Post by petirrojo on Sept 23, 2003 14:19:14 GMT -5
OK, he's Ji-min's birth grandfather, but his stalking behavior is just plain wrong. I used to feel that JY should have told him that he was going to be a grandfather, seeing as how she had such a close relationship with him, but in retrospect, maybe she was right to keep away from him. After all, look at the fine job he did raising SM!
Does anybody here feel sorry for him in the least?
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Post by JadeEyes on Sept 23, 2003 16:03:12 GMT -5
Woon-kyu was a sympathetic character, and one of comic relief a lot of the time, in his first months on the show. But since the 4-yr FF, he's shifted into a much less likeable character. It's impossible for me now to have a dash of sympathy for him. By contrast, Grandma Sohn (YJ's grandma) has shifted into a "good guy" character.
It's almost as if they've slowly shifted places on the spectrum in tandem. As GS began to redeem herself, WK grew more and more menacing, troublesome and odious. Now it's as though they're occupying each other's former places on the chain. WK is now a villian and GS is sweet, kind and loveable.
I'm really upset about it. At one time, WK was almost my favorite character. Now he's just a big jerk.
Jade
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c
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Post by c on Sept 24, 2003 0:20:12 GMT -5
Woon-kyu was a sympathetic character, and one of comic relief a lot of the time, in his first months on the show. But since the 4-yr FF, he's shifted into a much less likeable character. It's impossible for me now to have a dash of sympathy for him. By contrast, Grandma Sohn (YJ's grandma) has shifted into a "good guy" character. It's almost as if they've slowly shifted places on the spectrum in tandem. As GS began to redeem herself, WK grew more and more menacing, troublesome and odious. Now it's as though they're occupying each other's former places on the chain. WK is now a villian and GS is sweet, kind and loveable. I'm really upset about it. At one time, WK was almost my favorite character. Now he's just a big jerk. Jade i can't completely agree with this statement of switching places.gran sohn was not a hypocrite in any way.she never had a problem w/ja-young's pregnancy.her issuse was min-joo's family & how close they were to her.how was she to keep the father of ja-youing's baby a secret when the father was so close to her own home.she was never the "bad guy" b/c her fear was out of love for her grandson.woon-kyu proclaimed how much he has always loved ja-young like a "daughter" but now attempts to steal her child b/c of blood.even b/f he knew about ji-min he was limited in his response to yuna.when min-joo miscarried & had the hysterectomy he blamed her for not being able to carry on his blood line.ji-min isn't a person to him,he's merely a means of continuation of the great lee name. woon-kyu's proclamation of so called care & concern for ja-young's situation is like every thing else about this man: a lie!!!!it's no wonder sang-min did what he did to ja-young in the beginning,he learned his behavior of taking what u want despite others from him.  |
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Post by galacticchick on Sept 24, 2003 9:53:24 GMT -5
Sangmin's dad is turning into a really creepy character. Who knows how long he was waiting for JY and Ji-min to show up.
However, I must admit he made a good point when he told Ja-young, "Don't get so emotional about this and try to avoid reality." From what I got yesterday, it seems that JY and YJ will not let Ji-min's last name impede them from having a happy life, if they would just let go of that, they would be a lot happier.
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Post by JadeEyes on Sept 24, 2003 11:32:28 GMT -5
I agree that Grandma Sohn was never a villian in the way Woon-kyu is now acting as a villian. Even so, GS acted as a malevolent force and one that kept YJ and JY apart, as well as brought great misery to them both. And GS justified her actions by referring to a belief system based on deeply held traditions, just as WK is doing now.
I think WK really did think highly of JY and had great affection for her. But probably to his thinking, the tradition of men claiming their children--in particular their male children--must outweigh all other considerations. Unbelievable as it may seem, he must really think life would be easier for Ja-young if she was "relieved" of the "burden" of raising this illegitimate child, and probably just thinks if he and SM pursue it enough, and offer enough, she eventually will be grateful to accept their help and unburden herself of Ji-min so she can go off free to start over with another man, and children w/ him.
Short-sighted and insensitive, yes. But not such a far-out idea for even people in Western culture. I remember there was someone we knew in a custody fight w/ her ex husband. She was struggling hard financially, barely making ends meet. Her ex and his wife were doing ok and decided they wanted custody of his young son who had been w/ his mom since the divorce. I was talking about it to some people we know, and one of them said, "If the mom is having such a hard time of it, why doesn't she give the boy to his father and stepmother? You'd think she'd be grateful they want to take him!"
I was so shocked. Yes, there are women who abandon their children, and probably who would be glad to have someone take their kids so they could be free of the burden. But it certainly runs contrary to how most mothers think and feel. A mother doesn't want to give up her children just because she's having a tough time. The normal instinct is to struggle and sacrifice and do what you have to to keep your family together and your children by your side.
My point is, here is a Westerner expressing such an ignorant view. It's not hard to believe a man like Woon-kyu could be that oblivious as well. He probably really believes them claiming Ji-min is doing the good and honorable thing....just as GS believed she was making the best decision for her grandson by refusing to allow what she viewed would be an unsuitable marriage for him, frought w/ nasty complications for them in the future.
In that way, I see Grandma Sohn and Woon-kyu having traded places on the good guy-bad guy spectrum, which I find interesting. It's as if GS couldn't reform until someone else took her place on menace duty.
I was surprised to see her go to Sang-min in attempt to reason w/ him. I was afraid when she found out she might retract her approval of the marriage. I was so relieved to see that she didn't and is trying to help. But who would expect SM to listen to reason? The old woman certainly has enough money. Instead of wasting her time attempting to appeal to the louse's conscience, why didn't she just get her checkbook out and start negotiating prices? Ja-young would never bargain that way when WK tried it---but I believe SM can be bought. If the price was right, I doubt he'd hesitate a heartbeat.
Jade
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c
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Post by c on Sept 24, 2003 12:53:24 GMT -5
as westerner i understand his views,but even gs understood that her own views were wrong.his views which r indeed based on his culture do not in any way justify any of his actions just as they didn't justify gs.my point is that the man is a hypocrite based on the fact hat he said he loved jy & promised to never do anything to hurt her yet look at his actions now & in the near future.using ur views/culture as a excuse for your behavior doesn't excuse that behavior.believe me i know plenty of older generation korean(my aunts & uncle for one)who were born,raised & lived most of their lives in korea & they still think his behavior is completely deplorable.
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Post by petirrojo on Sept 24, 2003 14:25:22 GMT -5
Hmm... would money do the trick (either offering more or interest free loans or pulling it away)? Something tells me that SM has a one-track mind on this: he's got to do the "legal, right, moral" thing. Hah!
More likely he's denying his real motives: he wants a son of his own blood, yes, but he's also never stopped feeling like a heel for dumping Ya-Joung and in his tiny, twisted mind this must be his idea of making amends.
Woon-kyu though, he's another story. The fact that his son saw the unborn Ji-min as some disposible tissue should have caused him some deep shame, and if he cared for Ja-young at all as he once claimed to have (but notice, she was always there to pick up after him, clean for him, keep him company when he was lonely and drinking... it was always all about HIM!), he should have been more respectful of all she has accomplished and been able to see that raising a "bastard" has been no great impediment to a successful and happy life for her and her son.
Clearly the "it's my way or the highway" mentality is genetically transferred, because it's present in both father and son, to the exclusion of reason and respect for others. Interesting that Sang-min chose a woman to marry who shares that trait to some degree, though in this instance she is thinking of how others feel, including Ja-Young.
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Post by JadeEyes on Sept 24, 2003 14:31:08 GMT -5
Grandma Sohn knows now she was wrong when she refused to approve the marriage. But she didn't know it then; she really believed she was in the right, and had a duty to stay steady in her position and not be swayed.
Woon-kyu believes right now that he's right. Perhaps someday he too will have an epiphany and realize he erred. Perhaps then he will beg for forgiveness. But as of right now, he's doing what he believes is right. I doubt that changes the feelings he had once for Ja-young. I don't think he's doing this to punish her. He's following a principle he believes in, and probably believes protecting that principle is worth any cost.
I am in no way defending his actions, or endorsing them. If he asked my advice, I would tell him I think he's in the wrong and that he should cease and desist this minute.
Not liking what he's doing doesn't prevent me from understanding that he believes he's defending an important principle...even if it's one I don't share.
Jade
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Post by jenny on Sept 24, 2003 16:55:07 GMT -5
I think the difference between Grandma Sohn and Woon Kyu is the fact that WK is ignorant. Not in a name calling way, but as a mental state. Grandma Sohn was fully aware of the pain she was causing everyone, but felt she had to protect YJ from himself. WK seems too childlike to be aware of anyone's feelings(How else could he offer JY money to give up her child to make her life easier?). I don't think he is mentally capable of acting adult. Grandma Sohn was trying to avoid a total disaster and, as the adult, she did what she felt was best for her family. But WK wants a grandson, and he wants him NOW!!!!  WAAAAAH!  |
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Post by JadeEyes on Sept 24, 2003 17:38:22 GMT -5
I think that's a pretty good analysis Jenny. For instance, Grandma Sohn never offered Ja-young a fat envelope when she wanted her out of her hair, did she? Remember how insulted she was when YJ accused of her such, and made him feel stupid for even thinking for one second that would've worked with Ja-young? As angry as she was w/ the whole mess, she knew enough not to think Ja-young would take a bribe to give up someone she loves.
So she is a lot smarter than WK...and has better overall sense. But I don't agree w/ you that WK is doing all of this just because he wants InstantGrandson...I think he really believes this is the right thing to do. And he really does have a strong desire to be connected to a biological grandchild.
None of that changes my feelings that he's in the wrong here. And my original point remains: Grandma Sohn and Woon-kyu have traded places on the hero-villian drama scale. WK, once a kindly, sympathetic figure has turned menacing and is creating severe conflict for Ja-young and Young-joon. Grandma Sohn OTOH once served as a menacing, opposing force for her grandson and the woman he loves, causing them severe conflict and heartache. Now she's seen the error of her ways and can't do enough nice things for them. She's become kindly and sympathetic.
They have or did have different reasons for what they did/are doing. But the fact remains they've switched teams.
Jade
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Post by INDEBWETRUST on Sept 29, 2003 16:04:45 GMT -5
I was surprised to see her go to Sang-min in attempt to reason w/ him. I was afraid when she found out she might retract her approval of the marriage. . Jade Some of us have not seen this episode--so it would be greatly appreciated if you didn't spoil it for the rest. |
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Post by INDEBWETRUST on Sept 29, 2003 16:07:07 GMT -5
Yes, sang min's father has become quite the jerk-- he even offered her money for her child--we'll I never!
And, how come he has yet to give sang min a piece of his mind about how he abandoned the jy and the baby in the first place- he wanted her to get rid of it, jerks nothing but a bunch of jerks.
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Post by JadeEyes on Sept 30, 2003 10:26:08 GMT -5
Some of us have not seen this episode--so it would be greatly appreciated if you didn't spoil it for the rest. Do you have any idea how utterly moronic you sound? Allow me to enlighten you, to save you future embarrassment: You are posting to a Chicago-based message board; it's hosted by the TV station in Chicago that airs YH for Chicago area fans. Chicago area viewers have just seen ep. 134, if I'm not mistaken. Discussion here of episodes ahead of this w/o clearly marked spoiler warnings is a gross discourtesy to the main viewers for which this board is intended. Anyone watching in the Philly area or Hawaii reads here at their own risk. In another post, when you thanked someone for "providing a spoiler" you misinterpreted a regular discussion post as a spoiler. The ep. has aired here already. I think you should get the timeframe issue clear in your mind before you continue posting here. And if you're going out of your way to make posts for the sole purpose of being rude or abusive to another board user, you shouldn't be posting here at all. Jade |
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Post by Soju on Oct 1, 2003 17:40:41 GMT -5
I tried hard for a long time to continue to play devil's advocate for WK. I'd think, "He's just a traditionalist, and who am I in another culture to condemn it", and, "It's a shame that he can't see his own Grandson", at the same time I was also thinking "What a creep!"
But, I can no longer defend him at all. Scolding JY's Grandma was the last straw. It wasn't HER fault that Ji-min's friend's Mother let him leave the party without calling to ask if it was OK.
He's getting even more obsessed than MJ was about Sang-min's ex.
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Post by JadeEyes on Oct 1, 2003 19:01:51 GMT -5
I don't think the child's family threw the party w/o Ja-young and her family knowing about it. I had the sense one of them dropped him off at the child's house for the party, and was supposed to pick him at a designated time. MR went to get him and knew where he was...or thought she did. It seems to me what went wrong is that the boy's parents allowed JM to leave w/ other children and didn't insist that he remain in the house until someone came to pick him up. Considering he's only 4 (I know, I know, everyone says he's five, but he's 4 in US years), it's rather unconscionable to me that a classmate's parents would be so irresponsible as to let him wander off on his own, even w/ other kids. I would think in Korea, a much more formal society than our own, it would be even less likely a parent could be so irresponsible. When I was growing up, parents were much more lax about allowing kids to run off on their own, and even so, when I had kids over for a birthday party, the guests stayed there until a parent came for them. Same was true when I was a guest at a friend's birthday party. This was the case well into grade school. If Ji-min's disappearance ended in tragedy, the parents of his friend certainly would be liable. I don't know if Korean society is as litigious as here in the West, but if that happened here and the child was injured, killed or never found, w/o question the victim's family would sue the hosts of the child's party. And of course it wasn't the fault of Ja-young or anyone in her family that Ji-min was lost. WK was way, way out of line to say what he did, not to mention show up ininvited and stand there scolding the grandmother after being told several times to leave. WK used to be almost my favorite character, and nowadays I find it impossible to say a word in his defense. What's the Korean word for scumbag again? Jade |
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