Episode 85 Pestilence? **Possible Spoiler**

[Oma]

I'm not sure what episode we're up to in New York, but the "pestilence" just hit. I've been trying to research it on Google and just come up with the same word "pestilence." Does anybody know the deal? I was wondering if the Black Death made it as far as East Asia, but that doesn't seem to quite be right. It may have gotten that far but would have been in the 1400s. Based on the symptoms it seems to be an actual epidemic of something, not just widespread famine-related diseases. Not smallpox either right? Any thoughts?

[JPh]

Plague.

All those dead rotting bodies, rats, flies, starvation, eating of dead bodies.

You figure it out.

[TheBo]

JPh, that's phrased a little rudely.

Oma, I think you are talking about the plague. From my limited knowledge of the Black Death, I understand it originally came out of the Middle East to Europe, as a result of the Crusades. For that reason, it might have certainly spread to the area in question. However, it could equally be the smallpox or even a pestilence on crops. I can't actually remember the occurences you are talking about; I don't know if that's because I saw them so long ago that I don't remember them or that I just personally have not gotten that far in my viewing. I believe in another thread, the episode number is 71 or 72, which is certainly up to where we are here in Chicago, and I'm behind everyone else because I tape and play later.

Anyone else?

Bo

[skinz]

TheBo, Chicago will get that episode on tuesday (Chicago will get episode 84 tonight and the episode with pestilence is episode 85).

Frankly, episode 85 have the most realism in terms of how the people were really suffereing during the war including the military.

[chigirl68]

Thanks Skinz. I was wondering if I missed something. I'll add that ep # in the subject line.

[FrederickII]

Could this be where Yi Soon Shin comes down with Typhoid and recovers in 12 days?

The black plague came to Europe from Asia. It entered via Italy. Genoan territory on the black sea was under siege by the Mongols, as the ships left the area they were carrying plague rats.

[Oma]

Wow! Thanks everybody. As I continued my search, I did find out that there was another wave of the bubonic(sp?) plague in London in 1592. So that could be it. I think the "Black Death" that hit Europe was the big plague epidemic about 200 years before that. I figured Yi was depicting something along those lines, but wasn't quite nasty enough. KBS spared us the black swollen necks and armpits... LOL

BTW, when did we see rats?

[Daemado]

Both China and Korea suffered greatly from the plague during the 14th century. From my understanding the disease thrives in areas with a large rodent population (rats are notorious, but here in California it's spread by squirrels) so a large troop movement through northern China and Manchuria could have spread the disease.

Typhus (not to be confused with typhoid) is another notorious epidemic disease associated with wars and natural disasters -- once called "ship fever" because body lice can spread it quickly in close quarters. The Korea - Manchuria area is also known for "Korean hemorrhagic fever" which is very similar to the "hantavirus" of the southwestern U.S. And don't count out influenza and smallpox.

All of the above diseases killed countless people in Korea during 1950-53, particularly in the north.

[BungalowDweller]

Yet another thread discussing the Plague! IMHO the pestilence mentioned here was not the Plague. I provide a little more historical background on the movement of the Plague in the thread "Magistrate UH."

[FlowerLady]

When the female physicians lifted the shirts of the stricken men, their chests had large, purple raised sores which made me think of leprosy. Their affliction was so highly contagious that the doctors were terrified to even be around these men. Lepers were also quarantined and lived in isolated colonies.
Oh, well, I'm not a doctor, just thinking out loud........

[TheBo]

Yes, but Flowerlady, I think (and don't quote me on this) that leprosy has turned out NOT to be as contagious as people THOUGHT it was. I know a person can get infected if the virus (bacterium, whatever) gets inserted under the skin. For instance, there was a high-school football player in Texas who broke the skin of his leg when he broke his leg during a game, and some of the field dirt got in, and he got leprosy, and they theorized there was armadillos around (which apparently are carriers) and he got it from them. So, that would indicate that even though you could get it from someone if they scratched or bit you, you probably could not get it just from being in the same room. (This was reported on 60 Minutes or some such a few years ago, by the way.)

Bo

[Raven]

I think what they had was the black death or the bubonic plague, is called like that because the spots that appear on the bodies turn red then black and because of the inflammation of the lymph glands called buboes. I found this website that talks about it. check it out. www.themiddleages.net/plague.html

[Shaughraun]

These episodes were remarkably sad. What a tragedy for Korea, YSS and the people.

[Daemado]

If the translation (and diagnosis) from the Imjin Changch'o is to be believed, the disease was typhoid fever.

A memorial from YSS to the court from an indeterminate date in 1594 (#74 from the Yonsei University Press translation) notes: "While the sailors of the three naval stations were concentrated in one sea camp in large numbers typhoid-fever has been spreading rapidly from spring through summer. Large amounts of medicines were prepared and exhaustive treatments were given to the patients, but few proved effective for the diseases, which are taking away many lives."

Another undated memorial from 1594 notes: "O Yong-tam (Uh Young-dam), the newly commissioned Commandant of Pangtap, died of disease at the war camp on the 10th of Fourth Moon."

According to this source:

www.emedicine.com/MED/topic2331.htm

one of the symptoms of typhoid fever is the appearance of "rose spots" on the chest and abdomen. Mortality rate is 10% - 50% but averages about 20%.

Memoral #67 gives a figure of 1,704 deaths and 3,759 "still in sickbed." This implies a mortality rate as high as 31% -- probably less assuming not all the survivors were counted as patients at one time. That's sounds like a bit on the low side for plague, but possibly a bit high for typhoid.

(I still harbor a sneaking suspicion that "typhoid" might be a mistranslation of "typhus" though.)

[Cool]

Holy crap pesitilence is defined as bubonic plague, jesus christ this is not rocket science. Does it really matter HOW it reached Asia?