School

[School]

Yi-Soon-Shin was a great military leader and was very smart, so why didnt we learn about him in school? instead we had to learn about a roman leader that married his sister somthin.

[kimchi guest]

by the way, kimchi posted this not "School"
I was just 2 lazy 2 log in.

[donilpark]

Because Korea, no, Asia is not important. Or so they think.
So for the same reason, they teach you that Gutenberg first invented the printing press and movable types, or that ironclad was first used in American civil war or things like that.
They just disregard the contribution of Asia in world history. No, they do recognize Chinese or even Japanese contributions, but they just don't care or bother about a weak nation like Korea.
Even if they recognize Korean achievements, they automatically think it must be something that originally comes from China or something like that without even trying to study it. Because even if they try to credit Korea for something, all the sources they have are Chinese or Japanese, which are seriously biased. They just never bother with it.
I think I kind of got carried away with it, but yeah there you go.

[passing by]

donilpark.

It is not accurate to say Korea was a weak nation since it is only a recent phenomenon (from late 19th century to much of 20th century). The downfall of the Chosen dynasty was primarily due to the corrupt high officials in the government (An-dong Kims, Poong-san Chos, and Mins, relatives of Empress Min)), a feable king (Emperor Go-jong) and his short-sighted father. Before Korea was colonized by Japan, it owned much of Manchuria and the adjacent Russian territory. During colonization, much of the land was given to Ching by Japan. The historical documents supporting the Korea’s claim to Manchuria and adjacent Russian territory and other valuable ancient documents were looted systematically by Japanese during the colonial years. Because the former installed leaders of South Korea were pro-Japanese generals and politicians (i.e. Pres. Park, Pres Chun, etc.), they did not actively try to recover these. It is rumored that the amount of artifacts and documents looted by Japanese number over a million items. Most of looted ancient documents have valuable historical facts about the relationship among China, Japan, and Korea. The absence of those documents gave no choice to Korean historians but to write its own history using the records of Japan and China. Thus, whenever disputes arise over past histories, it becomes very difficult for Korea to make its case since most of proofs (i.e. documents supporting Korea’s claims) are owned by Japanese.

It also should be known that the present historical textbooks used by Koreans in their schools were based on the findings of Japanese historians of Korea’s ancient history during the colonial years. During the 19th century, Chosen suffered invasions from France, U.S., Britain, and finally Japan. To this day, France owns the royal records from Kyu-jang-gak (established by Jung-jo) that they have looted when they landed on Kang-wha island. When South Korea purchased high-speed rail technology from France, there was an implicit verbal agreement between Pres. Chirac and Pres. KYS to return the royal records, but they have not as of yet. Even if South Korea wants a return of historical documents from Japan, they can’t because Korean historians do not know what is missing and Japanese flatly deny whether they have looted any documents (they do admit that they have some, but they refuse Korean historians from taking a look at it).

*Existing Sam-gook-sa-gi and Sam-gook-yoo-sa are books which compile the ancient history of Korea and Kim Boo-sik (author of Sam-gook-sa-gi) mentions a number of books that he has used as a reference, however none of them is extant.

It is very hard for a nation to last 5000 years. For a nation to last that long, that nation has to be either very powerful or has to have a strong national identity bordering on religiosity. Korea has a strong national identity because it has its own distinct culture and language very different from China or Japan, however no one knows how powerful Chosen, Koryu, Barhae, and ancient three kingdoms were because of the dearth of remaining documents unless we invent a time-machine in near future I think I rambled on too much. There are more informed people out there, however I just wanted to pass on little that I know.

Stephen

[donilpark]

It is not accurate to say Korea was a weak nation since it is only a recent phenomenon

I was using irony when I said 'weak'.
In fact, what you're saying is exactly my point.
Korea has achieved great things in the past and was strong at times, but just because Korea was a colony of another nation and weak one when the globalization began, it's known to the world as if it has been that way since the beginning. That is, Korea is not 'advertised well.' It's only been advertised in the way the Japanese or Chinese sources want it to be, which are, as I mentioned, grossly biased.

[kimchi guest]

thank for the info.
( I would have rather learned about asia in "world" history class instead of europe.

[donilpark]

Yeah... not only that, you'll never learn about a theory of what we refer to Chinese characters actually invented by Koreans or compass invented by Koreans.
Or that Taoism originates in Korea....
For one, the world history is very West-centered and even Asian history is very China or Japan-centered.
Can't help that until Korea is better known to the world.

[FrederickII]

If I am not mistaken, Korea lost it's lands in Manchuria with the fall Of Koguryo.

I can remember Choi Chong Hon on AOW stating that he was dedicated to recovering Koryo's lost lands to the north.

Plus with the fall of the Yuan dynasty, the Ming started to occupy Koreas northern lands.


though I also saw a map in the beginning of the show, which clearly shows Korea's borders going beyond to Yalu river but not to the extent of what Koguryo had.

[donilpark]

If I am not mistaken, Korea lost it's lands in Manchuria with the fall Of Koguryo.

Or rather, with the fall of Balhae.

[JPh]

" Chinese characters actually invented by Koreans or compass invented by Koreans.
Or that Taoism originates in Korea...."

Oh come on, I don't think so. And I'm second generation Korean. It's an outrageous claim.

[donilpark]

It's an outrageous claim.

Only because you never heard of it.
For example, compass written in 'Chinese characters' is ÔþöÜÚï (Nachimban) and it's a short for ãæÔþöÜÚï, which means 'Shilla's needle plate'.
You know how products are often named by the place of origin? This is the case. Just like china means porcelain, so does the name 'nachimban' mean that it's a Korean invention.
Also, the very first record of magnet appeares in Samguksagi, Korea's oldest historical record.
There, there are lines that say "In January of 669, Tang asked for magnets" and "In November of 672, 1500 needles were sent to Tang."

About Chinese character, try readig this.
It's pretty long, but if you really want to know what I'm talking about...

www.inews.org/Snews/Board/11/show.php?Domain=vank2&SeqCode=1&No=50

There's no doubt that the originators of the so-called 'Chinese' culture is the people of Doing-i, eastern bowmen or easter barbarans as Chinese refered them. There's really no argument about that.
It's just a matter of whether this Dong-i people are one of what they call Chinese peoples ('Zhonghua' peoples) or they are ancestors of the Koreans'.
But if you look at the name itself, it's the Chinese themselves that refered to these people as 'eastern' people, and yet, a few millenia after that, they are now claiming they were their own ancestors, when it's clear that they are Korean ancestors.
You'll be really shocked to know how much history and heritage China (as well as Japan) has stolen from Korea.
and that stolen history is advertised to the world as if it were their own. Alas.

[temporarily lurking]

Whenever they talk about reclaiming the northern land, they are talking about Yo-dong (a triangular peninsula, West of Yalu River) in the drama, Much of Manchuria and adjacent Russian terrory was lost when Barhae was conquered by Ching(Manchurians).

However, when the border was agreed upon between Ching and Chosen in late 19th century, Gando was a part of Chosen. When you talk about Gando, there are North-Gando, West-Gando and East-Gando. The combined Gando cover about half of Manchuria and some part of Russian land. The exact size is unknown, However there are earlier royal records which show that taxes were collected from the Chosenese in this area. Even maps drawn by foreigners and Catholic priests who were prosetylizing in Korea during late 19th century show that Western half of Manchuria was called Ham-kyung region (Ham-kyung province of Chosen). Somehow, there are dearth of maps from 19th century Chosen. I found 19th century Chinese map showing the border between Chosen and Ching. I have the copy of the map on my PC, but do not remember the URL of the link. Japan is quiet on this issue although it probably has the looted documents and maps from Chosen confirming Chosen's claim. It appears that Korean historians have to make a claim using the documents and maps of foreigners not their own.

Below is the news article pertaining to Gando.
Gando article

MOD NOTE - modified to make URL fit on page - Bo

[kinoeugene unlogged]

well..the mention of Gutenberg above reminds me of JikJi which was published in Koryo dynasty with a metal type in 1377. JikJi is kinda Buddhist scriptures and is kept in National Library Paris in France. JikJi is the first document published by a metal type in history.
It was 78 years ahead of Gutenberg.
Unfortunately, almost every people doesn't know about JikJi but Gutenberg.

portal.unesco.org/ci/en/ev.php-URL_ID=16050&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html

[temporarily lurking]

Everyone,

This forum is not meant for discussing this topic, however I felt that I needed to rectify some of the misconceptions people have in regards to Korea's territorial boundaries in past. What you don't realize is how much of the histories of Chosen, Koryu, and three kingdoms have been altered by Japanese during 36 years to justify their so-called "superiority" over Koreans.

The movement to reclaim Gando is a step to rectify the past wrongs as much as protecting the territorial right of Dok-do. South Korean government has been quiet on this issue because they feel it is too premature to talk about this when North and South Koreas are still divided.

IMHO, the division of North and South Koreas will be permanent as long as Mr. Kim stays in power. Also, the reclamation of Gando is impossibility unless a Soviet-style breakup of China is induced by the U.S. Below are the links which talk about the Gando issue. They are all written in Korean. I thought about translating it, but I am too lazy to do it. Hope this puts a closure on this issue.

www.donga.com/fbin/output?f=jis&n=200406240315

wondreams.hihome.com/temasogo_hanbando%20goejido.htm

news.hankooki.com/lpage/life/200409/h2004090718501844390.htm

wondreams.hihome.com/temasogo_gando.htm

blog.khan.co.kr/media/folderListSlide.asp?uid=egando&folder=6&list_id=4429443

[donilpark]

kinoeugene said:

well..the mention of Gutenberg above reminds me of JikJi which was published in Koryo dynasty with a metal type in 1377. JikJi is kinda Buddhist scriptures and is kept in National Library Paris in France. JikJi is the first document published by a metal type in history.
It was 78 years ahead of Gutenberg.
Unfortunately, almost every people doesn't know about JikJi but Gutenberg.

portal.unesco.org/ci/en/ev.php-URL_ID=16050&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html

Yes. And also the very first book printed with wood types in existence is Mugujeonggwangdaedaranigyeong of Korea as well.
If you count by the records, not the actual relics, the history of printing (for both wood and metal types) goes further back to the past in Korea. So according to the records that make reference to books printed with metal type, metal type was used more than 200 years before Gutenberg.
And yet, printing press and compass are considered two of China's 4 inventions, along with paper and gunpower.
I mean, it's perhaps that the Westerners simply thought whatever they learned from the Chinese was their own invention. Since they didn't have a lot of chance to come to the eastern end of the continent to Korea, they probably didn't give it much thought or cared that it might be Korean invention.

BTW, to know fully about Jikji,

www.unesco.org/webworld/mdm/2001/eng/korea/jikiji/intro.html

Funny how I can't find any info about Darani (printed in some time beteen 706 and 751) in English at all.
All the websites I go to gives China's Diamond Sutra (printed in 868) as the oldest book printed with wood types in existence.
Even Japan's One Million Pagoda Darani (printed in 770), which was printed at least 20 years after Korea's Darani was printed, is about 100 years older than Diamond Sutra.
That is, Korea's Darani was printed at least 118 years before China's Diamond Sutra.
This alone would tell you how Korea's achievements are never recognized in the world. Figures.