Chosun Naval Oarsmen

[BungalowDweller]

When watching the various scenes in which the oarsmen are at work, I cannot help but wonder why they rowed while standing. It seems S-O much more back-breaking to row while standing, and to row "alone",with no partner at one's side. What happened when one oarsman collapsed? How did that affect the performance of the whole? The ancient Viking method, two men to an oar, seated side by side, rowing every six hours--then relieved (if conditions were favorable) seems to me to be a more efficient use of manpower. But then,again, the Chosun oarsmen were paid military--not prisoners taken in conquest or slaves as were so many who manned the Viking longboats.

[ronin]

The ancient Greeks city states, Romans, and Carthaginians use their trireme and quinquereme’s sails when traveling to long distances but they use oars during combat maneuvers when they’re at battle with each other or Illyrian and Cretan pirates. So they might be well rested before going to sea battle. Someone here already posted diagram pics of real Chosun ships where the sailors are sitting down while rowing. I think it’s somewhere in the archives. The Greek city states, Romans, and Carthaginians used paid military sailors to row their ships not slaves as shown in movies while their Marines on deck handled greek fire catapults and missle arrows.

[Trespasser]

The drama does a poor job of illustrating the oaring. The ship actually has an engine and propels itself, and you can see it.

Oarsmen were for propulsion during battle. The primary means of propulsion were twin sails.

[BungalowDweller]

Thanks Ronin! I browsed through the archives but apparently missed the blurb you mentioned. So it sounds as if they rowed both ways--if the drama is accurate.

An engine, Trespasser? Where was it? What Kind of engine?

[ronin]

You know it might be another history forum I sometimes visit:
www.allempires.com/forum/
I’ll check around if they have the diagram there in the Asian forums. They post some good info on ancient infantry weapons, personnel armor, ancient warships, and military history. They also post some diagrams there of Chosun ships in the past and some paintings of the land battles in the Imjin Wars. A real Korean historian on this board might know more about their ancestors’ warships than me.

[jk]

Korean(or East Asian) traditional style oar is very different from western style oar. It is called 'Han-no' in Korean, 'Yuloh' in Chinese, and 'Ro' in Japanese. There are some differences among them in detail, but they are basically all same type.

They work like fish's tail fin(single oar at the rear=small boats) or side fins(multiple oars on the side=warships), and are known to be more efficient(requires less effort) than western style oar. They don't require circular motion when rowing, it's closer to push and pull motion and generate propulsion both ways.(but needs some skills) Due to their construction and way they work, it's hard to row them while sitting.

As Tresspasser said, what depicted in drama is totally wrong. Chosun warship used twin sails as the primary mean of propulsion for long distance cruising. When additional propulsion was needed while cruising, usually two men rowed each oar. Oars were generally used when there's not enough wind or/and when sailing against the direction of current, or just when faster speed is desired.
(and regarding engine, what Tresspasser said was that ships built for (and appear in) drama have engines, not original 16th century warships. ;D)

When battle occurs, sails were not used as they are prone to catch fire. They get lowered, folded, and whole mast assembly leans backward before going into battle.(Japanese ships also had this unique feature) During the battle, as many as 4 people rowed each oar to obtain maximum speed and maneuverability. Standard size warship had 8 oars on each side, makes 16 oars total. 4 oarsmen/each oar was recommended(not required) for battle maneuver, makes 64 oarsmen total. One "oarsmen leader" was assigned to every 2 oars, so 8 of them were needed. (they assist rowing and manage the condition of oarsmen) Therefore, minimum of 72 men- solely dedicated to oars- were needed for maximum battle performance. About 90 was regarded as an ideal number, including reserves.

YSS once had more than 130 standard warships in his combined fleet during the war(he kept on building more ships), his biggest gripe was that he couldn't get enough oarsmen to mobilize all his ships at once, as he needed about 10000 oarsmen as minimum. (not including support vessels) Land forces had priority on drafting, so YSS's fleet almost always experienced shortage of oarsmen.

[florel]

JK, I always appreciate your informative and rigorously accurate postings.

jk said:

(and regarding engine, what Tresspasser said was that ships built for (and appear in) drama have engines, not original 16th century warships. ;D)

On this point, I'm not as harsh as you, guys.

How can we demand that the poor soldier extras should oar their ships in person with their own hands in reality ? ;D

[TheBo]

florel said:

...On this point, I'm not as harsh as you, guys.

How can we demand that the poor soldier extras should oar their ships in person with their own hands in reality ?

Oh, I don't know, I've heard that Korean tv stars have to put up with a lot of pressure and rigorous work, to the point of exhaustion. What's a little rowing for some extras? ;D

I do recall that Lt Na or someone (maybe it was faux-Monkeyman) was complaining that there weren't enough oarsmen, and that the ships therefore would not attain speed or agility, so that would imply to me that the usual thing was more than one man per oar.

Bo

[BungalowDweller]

Thanks, JK. The bit about the shape of the oars like fins is amazing--I found the shape intriguing and I have to say that I thought of fish fins when I saw the oars in hand.

As for the engine question, the first steam pump was created in the West in 1699 by Savery and the actual principle of the steam engine was first introduced by Frenchman Denis Papin as early as 1690. The Newcomen engine, the first practical steam engine, was made in 1712 and sold so well it was called the 'common engine'.

As you know, many times European and Arab "inventions" had been first made by Chinese inventors and engineers centuries earlier. The Chinese first invented the muzzle-loading cannon around 1350. The crank, an ancient Chinese invention,started to be widely used in the West only in the 1590s. In the 1200s Ismaeil al-Jazari wrote and illustrated the "Book of Knowledge of Ingenious Mechanical Devices" outlining inventions he built himself between 1150 and 1220.

Although the question about an engine on the Turtle Ship may appear amusing or even stupid to some, Leonardo da Vinci had already invented the first armoured tank and had made extensive sketches of such devices as a paddle boat, steam engine, self-propelling car, a submarine. He died in 1519, so he wasn't too far ahead of YSS in time. One never knows.