Episode 37 spoiler request (Sat, March 5 in NYC)

[Aging Warrior]

I missed the first 10 minutes. When I tuned in the King appointed Sung Ryong as director of HR.

What happened at the start? How did Yi Il betray the Westerners?

At the end when Won Kyun's Lt. went behind his back and messed him up it gave me flashbacks to Kyung Dae Sung's Lt. Kim.

[luvarchfiend]

i will do my best AW...after all it was 12 hours ago

it started with the continued torturing of the men being accused of treason. they were really working them over good. the king was in attendance as were other ministers, including yu sung ryong (sp?). the king stopped the torture to demand that they confess (we have seen this many times before)....no one did, so he ordered that it continue.

yu sung ryong was walking away from the area when he met up with 2 other ministers. these ministers commented on the somber face of yu sung ryong stating that it could be mistaken for sympathy (or something like that) for the accused traitors. yu sung ryong replied that to walk around with a smile on your face with the smell of blood of his fellow countrymen all over the city would also be wrong. i loved the look on the face of those 2 ministers after he said that.

one of these 2 then come up with the idea of telling the king that yu sung ryong is also a traitor. the king has him arrested and confronts him one on one. (while waiting for yu the king remembers their first meeting and other close moments). after speaking with him and asking yu about the charges (yu has been looking at the ground and silent the whole time), yu sung ryong then answers with a plea for his life. he tells the king that he has not commited treason, asks if he can believe him, and states a few times that he does not want to die, that he is not ready to die, that he has work left to do. the king lets him go, stating that it wasn't like him (yu) to respond that way.

i think this is about where you saw the rest.


to further comment on this episode, and you touched on it briefly yourself, it had a very AOW-like feel to it. one major difference in this time period is that the ministers and king do have the power and not the warriors. interesting to see how it works with this dynamic. but the plotting against those who don't see things their way, and the lengths they will go to in order to discredit and destroy, very much the same gameplan.

i also like the way those who are against YSS say his name, almost like it leaves a bitter taste in their mouths just to have the name come out.

[Aging Warrior]

Thanks Luv,

That's a big help. I still don't get Yi Il betrayed the West but that scene might have been cut out of the NY broadcast.

[T'ae-bi-mama]

One more exchange to add:
Since YSS was working as a staff officer at the Palace, his office was given the list of traitors to be arrested. He glanced at it and saw Yu Seong-ryong's name on it and went to his house to let him know.

Yu told YSS that he's going to submit to the charges, thinking there was nothing he could do about changing the King's mind about the witchhunt, but YSS said he should beg for his life. Yu balked at the idea, saying that a scholar's honor is worth more than his life. YSS came back at him with the question of whether his honor is more important than the people of Chosun. Then cut to the scene where he's taken before the king and humbles himself.

Yi Il's betrayal of the Westerners:
I think this refers to the period when they were fighting against the Jurchen and YSS had convinced Yi Il to call in the central army to assist them. Since YSS was widely known as Yu's man (an Easterner), Yi Il's concession to YSS' suggestion was interpreted as going along with the Easterners.

[luvarchfiend]

wow, t-mama, this exchange that you added was not in the broadcast i saw on wmbc....unless i had a blackout or fell asleep or something...and i am pretty certain that didn't happen.

did you watch this on wmbc last night?



AW, i forgot the part about the yi il. i don't think it has been said clearly, but i agree with t-mama about the possible reason.

[T'ae-bi-mama]

LAF: I used to watch it on WMBC, but I switched to MKTV (TimeWarner cable ch 73/512) because they show it on Wed/Thur nights.

I don't know much about the history of the period regarding warriors and courtiers relative power, but adding to your observation about the way the royal court is center of the power struggles in this era, I wonder why is it that the warriors aren't covetous of the throne, considering this king could have legitimacy issues as well.

[florel]

T'ae-bi-mama said:

Yi Il's betrayal of the Westerners:
I think this refers to the period when they were fighting against the Jurchen and YSS had convinced Yi Il to call in the central army to assist them. Since YSS was widely known as Yu's man (an Easterner), Yi Il's concession to YSS' suggestion was interpreted as going along with the Easterners.

You're right, T'ae-bi-mama.

luvarchfiend said:

i also like the way those who are against YSS say his name, almost like it leaves a bitter taste in their mouths just to have the name come out.

Konishi's curse in Ep. 1-4 is a classic and the worst one, isn't it ?


To add more precisions about Yi Il's relation with the West :

In Ep. 33, when YSS is in jail, Won Kyun requests the inquiry of YSS's vindication, without the permission of his commander Yi Il, to the minister of Military who is in the North province at that moment. The minister is an Easterner named Jung Un-Shin. (* Historically, YSS obtained his military posts by his recommandation. In Eps. 36-37, Jung Un-Shin is purged and exiled after being involved in Jung Yeo-Rip's treason affair.)


In the same episode, being resentful of this act, Yi Il sends to the central government a memorial reporting the "defeat" of the battle of Nok dune Island and proposes the execution of YSS. He also sends a private letter to the West minister Yun Du-Su in hopes of joining the West. Yun is not interested in Yi Il but interested in the fact that YSS is a man of Yu Sung-Ryong. He askes the king for the execution of YSS.


In Ep. 35, Yi Il consents to YSS's strategical view and decides to call reinforcements. In the central government, East ministers insist on the dispatchment of the central army and Yun Du-Su opposes it. The king says to him it was Yi Il who requested the dispatchment of reinforcements to the North. He also reproaches Yun asking him who is his real enemy. So Yun Du-Su is vexed at Yi Il's behavior.

[florel]

T'ae-bi-mama said:

I don't know much about the history of the period regarding warriors and courtiers relative power, but adding to your observation about the way the royal court is center of the power struggles in this era, I wonder why is it that the warriors aren't covetous of the throne, considering this king could have legitimacy issues as well.

During Chosun period, military officials were under strict control of the central government. All the local military leaders were dispatched by the central government and they continuously changed their posts every two or three years. So they had no time to collect private troops in a province. In addition to this, at the time preceding Imjin war, head commanders might be sent from Seoul to order big size troops gathered in province in case of a huge scale foreign invasion. (As we know, there was no full scale invasion before Imjin war.) The local military leaders could'nt move his troops out of the territory under his responsibility without permission. If he did, it was considered as an act of treachery. Unfortunately, this cautious measure became a reason of serious defeats in early phase of Imjin war. Provincial troops were collapsed before the arrival of the head commander.

[Aging Warrior]

Thanks T'ae-bi-mama.

I think you are all correct about the nature of Yi Il's "betrayal" but it still feels like there is a scene missing. In ep 36 Yi Il has a meal with Won Kyun where he suggests that Kyun approach his relative (Yun Du-Su?) to make sure that they are not considered Easteners. Yi Il is concerned about the possibility of being considered an Easterner but it hasn't come to pass. He should have been thrilled when Yun Du-Su interupted his meal with Won Kyun and the other general in ep 37. It was his chance to get on Yun Du-Su's good side like he had asked Won Kyun earlier. But it was obvious that Yi Il knew things were far worse for him than they had been in ep 36. I feel like there was a scene between Yi Il and Yun Du-Su or some other Westerner that was missing.

[T'ae-bi-mama]

Florel: You are a fount of historical information!

AW: you're welcome

[Eowyn]

We New York WMBC people sure do get a lot of scenes cut out (continually) . I'm always grateful to hear of a missing one. Thanks!

[florel]

Aging Warrior : I verified the scenario. You don't have a scene cut out about Yi Il.

In Ep. 37, when Yun Du-Su joins Won Kyun and his fellows, he tells Yi Il it's time to take a rest with his family as he returns to Seoul. Politically subtle Yi Il understands the alluded menace of Yun right away. So he visits Yun Du-Su in person to apologize himself.



T'ae-bi-mama, Your gracious compliment is immesurable.

I recall another detail about Chosun military officials. When they were appointed to a military post in a province, they couldn't accompany their family. So if they had risen in revolt, their family living in Seoul or in other regions would have been in danger. On the other hand, magistrats who took on administrative and judicial tasks could live with their family.