|
Post by ajk on Dec 16, 2023 16:19:58 GMT -5
...is up on Kocowa now with subtitles.
I'll be getting to this one very late tonight so everybody please be patient with me. Family stuff.
Remember you have 24 hours to watch the episode, with ads, before it's moved behind the paywall.
|
|
|
Post by sageuk on Dec 16, 2023 17:33:26 GMT -5
I really want to know how they found Ji Chaemoon.
For a guy who got scattered in a battlefield and was on the run, they found him waaaay too easily.
Was there anything that clued in where he could have been? Did they make the assumption that he would flee south?
|
|
|
Post by ajk on Dec 17, 2023 1:27:09 GMT -5
Well guys I am temporarily shut down. Kocowa refuses to work for me. I've tried four different browsers and two computers in the house and it simply will not work. Occasionally it works for a minute or two, and then all of the links and clickable things become unresponsive. I even subscribed (which I had planned to do anyway) and that didn't help. No idea what's going on here. No other problems whatsoever with any other website that I try.
Then I went right over to Dramacool to watch it there...and for the first time in the series they don't have the subbed episode up there on the day it aired. So I am stuck.
I assume that at least Dramacool will get the subbed episode within the next twelve hours or so...but who knows. Nothing I can do at the moment. I'll get to the weekend's episodes and get all of the content up as soon as I can get access to it.
|
|
|
Post by ajk on Dec 17, 2023 20:13:50 GMT -5
OK got my Kocowa back running. No idea what the heck happened but it's functioning porperly now and I'm working on 11.
The wonders of modern technology, don't ya just love it.
|
|
|
Post by sageuk on Dec 17, 2023 20:21:22 GMT -5
I just realized this show is in a way, continuing the theme of “monarchs and their right hand men” that JDJ, Jingbirok and JYS did. LBW doesn’t follow this pattern unless you consider Queen Wongyeong his right hand.
|
|
|
Post by ajk on Dec 17, 2023 21:54:12 GMT -5
Parts of this one were excellent, but plenty of it felt either a little too preachy or a little too staged for melodrama. Trying a little too hard to manufacture points with the viewers rather than having the confidence in the story to do it naturally. “Forget it.” That was quite a moment showing Hyeonjong’s growth. Gamchan trying to soft-pedal what had happened and the young emperor taking it apart easily. On the other hand, Gamchan is far too sensible to say what he said. But they gotta get CSJ involved early and often, don’t they. …aaaand there’s the clenched fist. “Issue a royal message to the people. Tell them to protect Gaegyeong with me.” Um, just asking, but Gamchan is only the deputy. Shouldn’t something this important be done by the minister at the top? Of course CSJ isn’t playing the minister, is he now. “I regret bringing you into the royal court so much that I wish to die vomiting blood.” So I’m guessing he’s off your Christmas card list? The comment about how easily Ji Chae Moon was found is spot on. They’re out there in the middle of nowhere and Ji is just now finding out how many men he still has...and then in the next second, the palace royal secretary is standing there to give him an order? Really? This was a real stretch. Not impossible, but it certainly required a believable explanation. Sloppy, sloppy. (click for full size) LOL! What a great comeback. Loved that. Two favorite things in this episode and the pair of scenes with the empress was one of them. They turned off the empress-as-wisest-sage spigot for the moment and made her a real person, and both scenes were excellent. Exactly how you show the human side of people like these. Well done. (click for full size) Wasn’t it immediately obvious that they were way too close to the fortress for their own good? Didn’t like this at all. Hadn't noticed this before but wow they sure did find two actresses who you could believe are sisters to play the two empresses. (click for full size) Second time with this, the fortress assault was overdone with the CGI. Looked like something out of the 20th century, not the 11th. I know, I know, people loved it, looked so cool...sigh.... “You should have given us a hint.” Favorite #2, what can you do but tip your cap to the writers, that was terrific. Everybody watching went Ohhhhhhh at the same time. Surprises in historicals are so rare, and so much fun. Bravo. I’ll say again, they need to give us proper maps. Those 3-D things they flash at us, we can’t get a proper idea of the geography of it all. Get off the CGI machines and give us something we can learn from. …aaaand another clenched fist. Enough already. Lazy writing. The Jeollyeong battle didn’t look right at all—like a tactical skirmish rather than a major advance. No archers anywhere? Sure is a lot easier to take out the onrushing attackers with arrows form a distance, duh. This may have been a budget casualty, fair enough. But maybe don’t show it at all if you can’t show it convincingly. The whole final sequence of the episode, the ultimate CSJ showcase but how true is any of it? That Hyeonjong issued a final order and came within moments of committing suicide? And either way, the long speeches the crying and it’s not that big a city and every minute of the long speeches and the crying the enemy is getting closer and closer…I’m sure it played big with the viewers but it was way, way overdone. Again, most of this one wasn't bad and maybe I sound too crabby about it. It's such a good story to tell, that goes a long way on its own.
|
|
|
Post by truth on Dec 17, 2023 22:44:30 GMT -5
The whole final sequence of the episode, the ultimate CSJ showcase but how true is any of it? That Hyeonjong issued a final order and came within moments of committing suicide? None. The entire final sequence was fiction. it’s not that big a city It is a big city. It's the capital city and the biggest city of Goryeo. The film set you see on TV doesn't look like a big city, because they don't have a budget and are re-using a 18th century Joseon dynasty-style town film set that isn't even supposed to be a Joseon's capital city film set. You'll probably see the same film set used over and over again across all Korean historicals regardless of time period. You'll see the same film set being called a Goguryeo capital in a Goguryeo drama and a Shilla capital in a Shilla drama.
|
|
|
Post by sageuk on Dec 17, 2023 23:41:45 GMT -5
I don’t have a problem with the final scene between Gang Gamchan and Hyeonjong, if only because I can buy Hyeonjong being overwhelmed by all the pressure that he’s in
|
|
|
Post by truth on Dec 18, 2023 0:35:36 GMT -5
I don’t have a problem with the final scene between Gang Gamchan and Hyeonjong, if only because I can buy Hyeonjong being overwhelmed by all the pressure that he’s in I don't have a problem with any fiction from this drama. Goryeo dynasty's historical record lacks a lot of detail compared to the Joseon dynasty record due to the Annals of Goryeo Dynasty getting burnt during Imjin War. Therefore, adding fiction to the story is inevitable when making 32 episodes of drama. All is good as long as the fiction doesn't go overboard like they did in IE, the drama where Cheonchu is an invincible warrior and Kang Jo's motivation for everything is his love for Cheonchu.
|
|
|
Post by ajk on Dec 20, 2023 2:16:27 GMT -5
Let me see if I can explain myself better. I have no problem with the concept of fiction in these shows and never have. Remember, I'm the one who even defends romance in these things! My only reason for bringing that up was simply to verify that there's no record of Hyeonjong writing a "final" order and being found at that moment with a knife in front of him. That's all.
And I completely agree with the idea of wanting to show Hyeonjong's struggles. Have complimented that multiple times. And yes, I do understand that the capital would have been a large city.
The problem was the timing and editing. "The Khitan army will soon arrive in Gaegyeong...we have lost," the messenger says. And even if the battle point is miles away, it's well established by now that the Khitan can absolutely haul, and a good galloping horse can do 25-30 mph. So Gamchan runs to the council hall, where Hyeonjong has already been sitting there wasting hours of time, and he brings help to bust down the door...but not to forcibly drag him out of there but so they can have their big long emotional scene. It felt like the two of them are in grave danger of getting caught any second, and yet the big emotional scene is going on and on and on...whatever was good about it, all I could think was You idiots! Get out of there this instant! And then after some additonal unknown amount of time has passed, we see the entire court and royal party headed south at a snail's pace, with no sense of urgency at all, not like 200,000 Khitan are breathing down their backs.
This just wasn't the right moment for the big emotional breakdown. It should have been in the daytime when Hyeonjong was sitting there for hours. They smooshed it all together at the end and it didn't made sense. It was like the writers stopped time so they could inject some extra drama.
|
|
|
Post by sageuk on Jan 12, 2024 22:22:11 GMT -5
Recently on YouTube there are video discussions on how Hyeonjong’s flight from Gaegyeong is treated sympathetically while Seonjo fleeing from Hanyang during the Imjin War is treated shamefully, though I can’t actually understand what they’re saying
|
|
|
Post by truth on Jan 13, 2024 17:42:52 GMT -5
Recently on YouTube there are video discussions on how Hyeonjong’s flight from Gaegyeong is treated sympathetically while Seonjo fleeing from Hanyang during the Imjin War is treated shamefully, though I can’t actually understand what they’re saying Hyeonjong tried everything he could to end the war before fleeing, such as fake surrender. Seonjo never considered fake surrender and even tried to flee to Ming China. He also needed help from Ming China to win the war. Hyeonjong never tried to run away to a different country. He also didn't ask for any help from Song China. Seonjo was never attacked by any local nobles during his flight. If anyone dared threaten Seonjo, they would've been executed immediately. Nobody in Joseon had a private army. Hyeonjong was attacked by multiple local nobles during his flight. Goryeo had local lords that had private military power just like the Japanese Daimyos. Joseon was devasted after the Imjin War and never really recovered. Goryeo entered 100 years of its most prosperous period due to the policies implemented by Hyeonjong after the war. Some say that Hyeonjong was the first person to instill the "One Korea" identity to the nation. Some people still had their own regional identity before Hyeonjong's rule. Some people considered themselves to be from Baekje while some people still considered themselves to be Shillan. This changes after Hyeonjong's rule as people from Baekje and Shilla regions start to identify themselves as only "Goryean."
|
|