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Post by ajk on Dec 3, 2023 16:16:02 GMT -5
...just went up on Kocowa with English subs.
Also, it looks like Kocowa is back to its policy of not letting you watch previous episodes after a certain point unless you subscribe and pay. I don't understand why they don't just let you watch with ads...the episodes are up in other places with no ads so it seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot. But that's beside the point. Watch them promptly if you want to watch them on Kocowa.
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Post by ajk on Dec 3, 2023 19:18:38 GMT -5
Pretty much the same as 7—good overall, certain things were very good, some of it was maybe a little too drawn-out for TV’s sake. “The Goryeo soldiers were defeated. All sword wagons were destroyed at once, and over 30,000 soldiers were killed.” Really? We never saw a peep of that. We got more footage of the emperor and empress crying over Kang Jo’s capture than we got of him actually being captured. This whole thing just wasn’t handled well. Seems like there were a whole lot of Goryeo soldiers right there near where he was caught...how did the Khitans just walk right into his tent and get him without even a sound? “The battle line has fallen already.” It has? The writers were in such a hurry to get the war started, why is this important part of the war being rushed through as well? Yeah we have to withhold judgment until the end, but it sure didn’t help the storytelling to smoosh this whole series of battles down to what we got and not even mention so much of what happened. Three things about the episode I particularly liked and #1 was the exchanges between Hyeonjong and Gamchan. Somebody smart wrote those; they were well-thought-out and felt totally authentic. There were six other Goryeo soldiers with Kang Jo when he was executed. Do we know who all of them were? Lee Hyun Woon was named in the subs when Kang yelled at him; No Jeon’s name was subbed; No Eui’s name was subbed later. Were the other three identified? Kang’s execution scene, what did people think of it? The emperor himself hacking Kang into pieces with an axe...true or false? (click for full size) This was #2. Really funny. He tells her, and it slowly dawns on her…then the sigh...then the I need water...and then we’re not sure it’s coming...is it...is it...and there’s the freakout. This is starting to turn into a fun part of the story. Yes it’s completely irrelevant to everything else, but a little slice-of-life scene now and then can make for a good breather. #3 was how they told the story of the Gwanju and Youngju fortresses falling. We don’t need to see every minute of every battle, but at least explain to us what’s happening. Here they did that very well. We got the explanation of what happened and why, straight from the traitor’s mouth, and got just enough visually to understand the events. Why didn’t they do exactly this at the beginning of the episode? More of this please! Haven’t had any cliff-diving yet, but the clenched-fist cliché is all over the place lately. if it keeps up we’ll have to start a tally. And now Gamchan is headed to meet the Khitan Emperor? True? I can’t find anything in English that confirms or denies this. He's only a deputy, would he really be the lead negotiator--and the only negotiator at that?
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Post by sageuk on Dec 3, 2023 19:24:57 GMT -5
They say Gang Jo was wrapped in a rug when he was captured and carried away. Was hoping to see that
I’ll give Gang Jo this. He was loyal to Goryeo to the end.
Historically, the Khitan emperor pierced Gang Jo's flesh when asking Gang Jo to be his subject. I don't see any mention of him hacking Gang Jo with an axe (its just said that the Khitans executed him) but either way the Emperor did personally spill Gang Jo's blood.
Kinda poetic that Gang Jo was sent off to battle by being bestowed an axe as per Goryeo military tradition and meets his end with one.
Gotta give Gang Gamchan something to do. He’s not mentioned a lot during the Second Khitan Invasion (the stuff he is mentioned in could be spoilers so I won't say specifics)
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Post by truth on Dec 4, 2023 1:51:05 GMT -5
“The Goryeo soldiers were defeated. All sword wagons were destroyed at once, and over 30,000 soldiers were killed.” Really? It is historically true that 30,000 soldiers were killed when Kang Jo was captured. There were six other Goryeo soldiers with Kang Jo when he was executed. Do we know who all of them were? Lee Hyun Woon was named in the subs when Kang yelled at him; No Jeon’s name was subbed; No Eui’s name was subbed later. Were the other three identified? I don't think the drama identified these people. Error on your character roster : No Eui did not become a Khitan envoy. Only No Jeon was sent as envoy. And now Gamchan is headed to meet the Khitan Emperor? True? I can’t find anything in English that confirms or denies this. He's only a deputy, would he really be the lead negotiator--and the only negotiator at that? Not true. They didn't send anyone to negotiate with Khitans during this point of war. That comes a lot later and it wasn't Gamchan that was sent when they actually did send someone. I don't see any mention of him hacking Gang Jo with an axe (its just said that the Khitans executed him) He was actually executed by Lingchi en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LingchiGotta give Gang Gamchan something to do. I thought Hyeonjong was the sole lead character, but it looks like Kang Gamchan is a co-lead character based on the way they're portraying him. By the way, all Korean reaction is praising CSJ's acting in this episode, calling him "Historical GOAT", "King of Historicals." I know ajk doesn't think of highly of him, but Korean viewers think he is the only one in the drama that is speaking and acting in a "traditional historical style" acting now that Kang Jo is gone. No wonder why the writer is making up a negotiator storyline for him just so that he can get more screentime.
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Post by sageuk on Dec 4, 2023 10:30:05 GMT -5
Lingchi? Oh that is way worse than being hacked to death with an ax
Where does it say he was killed via that method?
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Post by truth on Dec 4, 2023 10:45:11 GMT -5
Lingchi? Oh that is way worse than being hacked to death with an ax Where does it say he was killed via that method? I may be wrong about this one. A Korean history forum that I was looking at said he was killed by Lingchi but I think they may have just assumed that he was killed by Lingchi by the way he was tortured.
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Post by ajk on Dec 8, 2023 19:54:18 GMT -5
“The Goryeo soldiers were defeated. All sword wagons were destroyed at once, and over 30,000 soldiers were killed.” Really? It is historically true that 30,000 soldiers were killed when Kang Jo was captured. Yeah I did know that, what I meant but didn't phrase well enough was in the sense of Really, writers? A huge massacre and you gave us not even a hint about it until after it was over? It seemed like an awfully big thing to just push right past like they did. The Choi Soo Jong thing...it's not that I don't like him. I had a bad first and second impression of him because he was cast in roles that I didn't think he belonged in. Ass-kicking alpha-male warrior types. As good and authentic as his speech and style might be to experienced Korean ears, that part of it I don't know enough to appreciate, and I couldn't take him seriously as an ass-kicking warrior. But then we did EWG here and I was very complimentary of his work in that one, numerous times. That role, good casting putting him in the WG role. It fit with his strengths and WG wasn't an ass-kicker so that wasn't an issue. This is one lesson I've learned in watching more and more of these series: casting decisions are huge. (Jeong Bo Seok--didn't work at all as Li Kaigu, off the charts good as King Gongmin...great example.) As you've reminded us, there are only so many actors willing to do historicals so I do understand that they've filled roles with the actors available. Have to say, so far in this series it seems like they've made a lot of good choices.
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Post by truth on Dec 8, 2023 20:19:52 GMT -5
Yeah I did know that, what I meant but didn't phrase well enough was in the sense of Really, writers? A huge massacre and you gave us not even a hint about it until after it was over? It seemed like an awfully big thing to just push right past like they did. Not enough budget I guess. I said this before, but the budget for entire 32 episodes of this show equals 1 Episode of Hollywood Live Adaptation version of anime One Piece. That tells you everything. They probably didn't want to use a lot of budget on a battle that Korea loses. The Choi Soo Jong thing...it's not that I don't like him. I had a bad first and second impression of him because he was cast in roles that I didn't think he belonged in. Ass-kicking alpha-male warrior types. It's actually the opposite in Korea. Everyone in Korea was praising him in both Emperor of the Sea and Dae Jo Young. There's a reason why he keeps getting cast as the lead character in historicals. (Jeong Bo Seok--didn't work at all as Li Kaigu, off the charts good as King Gongmin...great example.) Same for Jeong Boseok. Korean viewers praised his acting as Li Kaigu back in DJY. Almost everything about his character in the drama was fiction though (Ex. Him being orignally from Goguryeo, Love triangle with Chulin who is not a historical figure) Error on your character roster : No Eui did not become a Khitan envoy. Only No Jeon was sent as envoy. I looked at your character roster and noticed that it still hasn't been updated. No Eui did not become a Khitan envoy. Only No Jeon was sent as envoy.
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Post by ajk on Dec 9, 2023 4:19:00 GMT -5
I will fix it now. Please be patient with me; dealing with a really difficult family situation right now and I may not be slow to post things the next few weeks.
I generally haven't included mentions in these rosters of discrete specific assignments given to characters, so I took out the envoy references entirely.
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Post by truth on Dec 9, 2023 8:42:41 GMT -5
BTW, it's historically accurate that No Jeon was sent as a Khitan envoy after surrendering only to be recaptured by Goryeo.
Lee Hyunwoon's record ends with him surrendering to the Khitans so everything you will see about him from this point forward is going to be all fiction.
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