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Post by ajk on Nov 18, 2023 16:18:47 GMT -5
...is up on Kocowa now, with subs.
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Post by sageuk on Nov 18, 2023 16:44:28 GMT -5
The first half of this felt really choppy and too fast, especially with Kim Chiyang's plot. Like it feels like two episodes crammed into one.
There's also a pretty notable liberties regarding Mokjong's death.
-Gang Jo sent someone from the royal pharmacy to offer him poison, but Mokjong refused. The guards who were watching over Mokjong were then told to kill him and then they passed off his death as suicide.
-Hyeonjong was apparently unaware of this when he came to the throne until the Khitan invasions.
So historically it can be assumed Gang Jo did not admit to assassinating Mokjong to Hyeonjong.
Also, they made a coffin for Mokjong out of door panels.
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Post by truth on Nov 18, 2023 18:30:34 GMT -5
Rating dropped to 5.2, which was lower than the 1st episode rating.
I'm guessing it's due to last episode of My Dearest airing on the same timeslot.
I'm hoping that Saturday's rating can go up starting next Saturday now that My Dearest ended.
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Post by ajk on Nov 18, 2023 18:42:21 GMT -5
First of all, something left behind from last week. Those two temples, turns out they’re within about a mile of each other. It wouldn’t be a flat, easy mile, but for a young guy like Wang Sun who’s obviously in good shape, it’s not at all unreasonable that he could get from one to the other within maybe twenty minutes, if not less. So no issues with this plot point, they gave us something plausible. Thumbs up. This episode, I agree with sageuk and not just about the first half. A whole lot of things that happened more gradually were smooshed together into one episode and it felt rushed. Was it for the sake of maximizing the drama for TV, or was it to simply get it all out of the way and focus on the war? If it’s the latter then we can cut it more slack than if it’s the former. Overall it wasn’t as contrived a version of the events as the IE version was, but they did take liberties here and there and it did feel like some of the importance of what happened was lost in the desire to cram it all together. Couldn’t they have given these events even one more episode? But we should reserve judgment until we see how they lay out the rest of the story. Watching the fire sequence again, and then the aftermath, I stand by my objection to it. Especially now that we’re seeing burned old people and all of the families crying and wailing. It’s a gross distortion and a cheap stunt. And why was Mokjong suddenly unconscious on the ground and everyone is running TO him? There was no explanation for how that happened. Thumbs down. Those two guys who showed up, the “royal preceptor” and the “national preceptor,” here’s an excerpt from a book chapter that explains the titles: The highest ranks a monk could attain in Koryŏ were royal (wangsa) and state preceptor (kuksa). To become eligible for these titles, he would have had to pass the examination and then achieve four successive promotions to the rank of taesŏnsa or sŭngt’ong. Whereas these appointments were basically relevant only within the monastic community, being selected as royal or state preceptor gave a monk a privileged status at court as well as enormous prestige in Koryŏ society. www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiN-bntws6CAxWWEFkFHRv1CiIQFnoECBYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrill.com%2Fpreviewpdf%2Fbook%2F9781684174768%2FBP000007.xml%3FpdfJsInlineViewToken%3D148390794%26inlineView%3Dtrue&usg=AOvVaw3U0cKRcNwXD8fqg93yqsMm&opi=89978449New character, Hwangbo Yu Eui, he’s “Officer of the Institute of Palace Miscellaneousness.” Miscellaneousness? Really? Would that be like a minister without portfolio? It sounds comically odd. For a second there you wondered if Hwangbo would rip down that false poster. He made a wise decision to not call attention to himself. (click for full size) I liked how she was a little bit tipsy in that scene, like the alcohol heightened her vulnerability. Well done. (click for full size) That was the line of the episode, cracked me up. The prince’s lover, that guy is way over the top, maybe a little too much to be taken seriously. Plenty of pro wrestling heels don’t have this much heat. Have to give credit here since I called them out last time, the execution of the young prince was handled tastefully. Quick and to the point and not drawn out melodramatically. We didn’t even see him fall, they spared us that. “I launched a coup, and assassinated him.” Didn’t try to spin that one, did he! Made me laugh. But apparently not accurate. And as sageuk pointed out, leaving Mokjong’s body to be picked apart by scavengers wasn’t historically accurate, and I didn’t like it at all. Of course he’d be given at least a simple burial. Another cave-in to the altar of more drama. But the conclusion, it was very good. That deer-in-the-headlights look frozen on Wang Sun’s face, that’s the kind of human reaction you’d expect here... (click for full size) And this, him crying, so alone in that big room, his entire world completely turned upside down just about overnight, it was a moving ending. You really have to feel for him right now. They’ve laid the foundation for a terrific character story going forward.
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Post by truth on Nov 18, 2023 18:58:53 GMT -5
New character, Hwangbo Yu Eui, he’s “Officer of the Institute of Palace Miscellaneousness.” Miscellaneousness? Really? Would that be like a minister without portfolio? It sounds comically odd. He's not a new character. He appeared on Episode 1 as well. I think "Officer of the Institute of Palace Miscellaneousness" is a mistranslation. I'm not sure how to translate that title, but the job of that title was to prepare for imperial assemblies. He was the person that was sent to bring Wang Sun to the palace in history as well. -Gang Jo sent someone from the royal pharmacy to offer him poison, but Mokjong refused. The guards who were watching over Mokjong were then told to kill him and then they passed off his death as suicide. What they did accurately : 1. Mokjong saying he wants to spend the rest of his life in the countryside with his mom 2. Mokjong walking to the place of exile while Cheonchu is riding a horse.
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Post by sageuk on Nov 18, 2023 19:34:18 GMT -5
New character, Hwangbo Yu Eui, he’s “Officer of the Institute of Palace Miscellaneousness.” Miscellaneousness? Really? Would that be like a minister without portfolio? It sounds comically odd. He's not a new character. He appeared on Episode 1 as well. I think "Officer of the Institute of Palace Miscellaneousness" is a mistranslation. I'm not sure how to translate that title, but the job of that title was to prepare for imperial assemblies. Sem Vermeesch translated his title as “Administrative Assistant of the Court Ceremonial Institute” in his English translation of Koryosa-choryo IA.
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Post by truth on Nov 18, 2023 19:53:54 GMT -5
There's also a pretty notable liberties regarding Mokjong's death. They also took liberty on how Kang Jo started his coup as well. Drama : Mokjong ordered Kang Jo to come and protect him. Kang Jo never receives this order. Lee Hyeonun tells Kang Jo that Kim Chiyang killed Mokjong. Kang Jo decides to take Kim Chiyang out and takes his army to the capital. He finds out Mokjong is actually alive on his way. Kang Jo does not hesitate and goes ahead with the coup. History : Mokjong ordered Kang Jo to come and protect him. Kang Jo left for the capital on his own, without any army. On his way, he receives a letter from his dad saying "Kim Chiyang killed Mokjong." He goes back to Seogyeong(Pyongyang) upon reading this, decides to take Kim Chiyang out, and takes his army to the capital. He finds out Mokjong is actually alive on his way. He then feels hesitant and thinks about going back. His underlings tell him that it's too late to turn back now. Kang Jo listens to his underlings and goes ahead with the coup. -
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Post by truth on Nov 18, 2023 21:07:03 GMT -5
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Post by 𝔰𝔢𝔞𝔫𝔪𝔞𝔠𝔩𝔞𝔦𝔯 on Nov 18, 2023 22:32:07 GMT -5
Mokjong didn't have to sell Yu Haeng Gan out like that before Kang Jo even entered the Palace - it's certainly not a rewarding job, being a Royal's lover... [Edit] also I realized the actor playing Yu Haeng Gan seemed really familiar, so I checked his filmography and...
He's Prince Geumwon from Ladies in the Palace! Lee Poong Woon's his name.
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Post by ajk on Nov 19, 2023 2:08:11 GMT -5
New character, Hwangbo Yu Eui, he’s “Officer of the Institute of Palace Miscellaneousness.” Miscellaneousness? Really? Would that be like a minister without portfolio? It sounds comically odd. He's not a new character. He appeared on Episode 1 as well. If you saw him and recognized him in episode 1 then I'll add that to the character roster. He wasn't identified by name until this episode and that's all I can go on, not knowing some of these secondary characters very well. BTW have to agree about Mokjong, he was The Man for these first three episodes, easily the strongest part of the entire story. The actor did an excellent job and the writers created an interesting character out of him. Mokjong didn't have to sell Yu Haeng Gan out like that before Kang Jo even entered the Palace - it's certainly not a rewarding job, being a Royal's lover... [Edit] also I realized the actor playing Yu Haeng Gan seemed really familiar, so I checked his filmography and...He's Prince Geumwon from Ladies in the Palace! Lee Poong Woon's his name.
Good eye! Hope his gig was longer in that other one. Here's a question I wasn't able to find the answer to: Is it known what happened to Chiyang's kid? I remember in IE he was taken back to Khitan lands and grew up there. Here he was killed on the spot with Chiyang. Either of these known to be right or wrong? And I'm going to bitch about that cat business again. The attendants took all of the poisoned food and dumped it out right in front of the temple? They dumped their garbage in the front yard? Really? No they would not do that. Plus, all sorts of animals would have been drawn to it and died, and it would have called attention to the poison and proved it to everyone who saw the stuff. Stupid in yet another way...and yes I have a bug up my ass about it lol
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Post by sageuk on Nov 19, 2023 2:22:22 GMT -5
Kim Chiyang’s son was killed on Gang Jo's orders, yes, according to the texts.
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Post by truth on Nov 19, 2023 9:12:15 GMT -5
Here's a question I wasn't able to find the answer to: Is it known what happened to Chiyang's kid? I remember in IE he was taken back to Khitan lands and grew up there. Here he was killed on the spot with Chiyang. Either of these known to be right or wrong? In IE, he was taken to Jurchen land, not Khitans. They didn't take him to the Khitans because Khitans were enemies. Sageuk is correct about him being killed on the spot with Kim Chiyang. 90% of Iron Empress is pure fantasy. I don't consider Iron Empress as a "traditional historical." You don't even need to compare any of the scenes from that drama with this drama because most of the stuff in that drama is fiction. The reason IE writer put the kid in the Jurchen land in that drama is because some weird people in Korea claim that Emperor Taizu of Jin is descended from Crown Prince Maui of Shilla. Kim Chiyang is a descendant of Crown Prince Maui in the IE drama(fiction). So his son being taken to the Jurchen land implies that the kid would become the grandfather of Emperor Taizu of Jin Dynasty. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Taizu_of_Jinen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Prince_MauiAnd I'm going to bitch about that cat business again. The attendants took all of the poisoned food and dumped it out right in front of the temple? They dumped their garbage in the front yard? Really? No they would not do that. Plus, all sorts of animals would have been drawn to it and died, and it would have called attention to the poison and proved it to everyone who saw the stuff. Stupid in yet another way...and yes I have a bug up my ass about it lol Historically, it wasn't the attendants that dumped it in front of the temple. The court lady just gave the poisoned food to Monk Jingwan and left. Jingwan thought the food was suspicious, so he fed some of the food to the crows to test if the food was poisoned. Crows died after eating the food, which led him to throw the rest of the food away. Wang Sun hiding underground while the court lady was visiting is historically accurate.
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Post by sageuk on Nov 19, 2023 10:28:55 GMT -5
Another thing. Historically Mokjong may have got to see Hyeonjong.
“Upon reaching Kwibopsa, he changed out of his royal robe and also changed his food, and then presented these to the new king”
Which is more sadder… not getting to see your cousin whom you haven’t seen in years and being casually told he was killed?
Or seeing your cousin one last time before learning he was killed a lot later?
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Post by truth on Nov 19, 2023 10:38:21 GMT -5
BTW have to agree about Mokjong, he was The Man for these first three episodes, easily the strongest part of the entire story. The actor did an excellent job and the writers created an interesting character out of him. Now that he's gone, there are only 2 remaining people with "traditional historical style" acting : CSJ and Lee Wonjong(Kang Jo).
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Post by sageuk on Nov 19, 2023 14:30:17 GMT -5
I just had thought regarding the coronation.
Usually in K-Historicals the the coronation is outdoors and not in the throne room, with the throne being outside when the newly crowned king sits, but this along with LBW have it indoors.
Been wondering about that
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