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Post by ajk on Apr 16, 2022 10:31:15 GMT -5
...should be up on Kocowa, with subs, within the next six hours. The unsubbed version will appear first, and the subs a few hours later.
As usual, be sure to watch it within 24 hours of posting, because it will go behind their paywall after that.
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Post by sageuk on Apr 16, 2022 15:08:14 GMT -5
Earlier I mentioned that I would have liked to see Chungnyeong excel at his studies rather than be told about it. This ep rectified that
Has it ever occurred to anyone that we have never once seen Yi Seonggye interact with his grandkids?
The closest I can think of is a scene in Tears of the Dragon where he tries to fire an arrow at Bangwon and Queen Wongyeong tries to cover her sons from the sight, and even then, I don’t recall seeing them interact.
The scene in which Min dies before his grandson can see him off got a little personal.
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Post by ajk on Apr 17, 2022 0:25:41 GMT -5
With the exception of the one chronic serious flaw that this series continues to suffer from, this was a good episode. The 23rd sentence in Zi Lu, what was that all about...(thank you Google) It's from a book called The Analects of Confucius, which Wikipedia describes as “an ancient Chinese book composed of a large collection of sayings and ideas attributed to the Chinese philosopher Confucius and his contemporaries.” Zi Lu is the title of one of the book’s twenty chapters. Here’s a website where you can read the whole thing: ctext.org/analects/zi-luNo there will not be a quiz on any of this. Just thought it would be worth looking into, and yes this is something of enough substance and importance that you could believe a crown prince would be asked to read and know. Taejong: “By reciting it several times, you will start to wonder the actual meaning of the sentences, or the hidden message behind [them].” Oh really? A whole lot of zealously religious people all over the planet seem to disprove that...but it’s great that the series is writing deeper, more substantive stuff like this despite being on a big network. Why the pounding, dissonant music when the eunuchs are being flogged? Why is this a moment of massive significance? Sorry, it isn’t. The crown prince’s drinking buddy, that was the fakest, phoniest non-drink from an EMPTY CUP that I’ve ever seen. Hey Taejong, you want to flog some people, forget the eunuchs and throw the book at that guy! “If you truly did your best, there would be results. But you have not shown any at all.” Anybody else have the thought that maybe the crown prince might have had a learning disability? Okay yes, Taejong and his son are having an angry, nasty confrontation. But the pounding drums and loud dissonance...This is not an earth-shattering thing we’re seeing. The kid is being a punk. He’s probably no older than 21 at this point, maybe still a teenager. Having an attitude with his dad, gee how unusual for someone his age. Over-juicing. All of a sudden Taejo is making nice? I thought maybe he’d take that wine pitcher and conk his kid on the noggin with it. They give him a heartwarming farewell scene in the council room...then a walk off back through the long hallway...and then to his deathbed. Really? It just seemed so out of the blue. Yes we saw his son come to him and beg forgiveness, but even with that, it just felt wrong. ■ In 1408, the 8th year of King Taejong’s reign, the founding king of Joseon, King Taejo, Lee Seong Gye passed away. Lee Seong Gye, the undefeated commander, lost to his son, Lee Bang Won, twice. He spent his later years in tragedy. But in the end, he acknowledged Lee Bang Won as the king. Now, his turbulent life came to an end. Acknowledged, okay fair enough...but happily? I guess it’s possible...but it felt like all of a sudden they decided it was time to write Taejo out and plugged in this scene to do it. There’s just no way the character would have such a sudden, complete change of heart. click for full size Whatever else you want to say, they sure do keep finding some nice locations to shoot in. Terrific shot. But that must have been a heck of a climb to get there. So the Min brothers are in peril, and the queen and her son are walking towards the big meeting room...in slow motion? With not only the loud pounding music but a choir singing urgently on top of it all? What is this, the WWE? You had to laugh! They’re just walking in! What do we get when the substance of it all begins—nuclear explosions? “The criminals committed a grave crime, so take the advice of your subjects and sentence them to the death penalty.” Anybody see that coming? Liar liar pants on fire! For once they came up with an ending that got your attention. Especially because we know that in real history the queen went bonkers when Taejong switched crown princes because she supported Yangnyeong so strongly. But here she’s gone bonkers AT Yangnyeong well before that time. So what’s going on here—have the writers yet again cashed in a chip too early for the sake of juicing up the drama? I hope this fun ending doesn’t turn out to be a cheap stunt.
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Post by 𝔰𝔢𝔞𝔫𝔪𝔞𝔠𝔩𝔞𝔦𝔯 on Apr 17, 2022 3:02:17 GMT -5
“The criminals committed a grave crime, so take the advice of your subjects and sentence them to the death penalty.” Anybody see that coming? Liar liar pants on fire! For once they came up with an ending that got your attention. Especially because we know that in real history the queen went bonkers when Taejong switched crown princes because she supported Yangnyeong so strongly. But here she’s gone bonkers AT Yangnyeong well before that time. So what’s going on here—have the writers yet again cashed in a chip too early for the sake of juicing up the drama? I hope this fun ending doesn’t turn out to be a cheap stunt. Top 10 anime betrayals: Early Joseon edition
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Post by mugwump on Apr 17, 2022 7:51:30 GMT -5
I see this going one of two ways. 1. Crown Prince says the criminals must be executed. "But", then he says, such and such bad things will happen to the King's authority, the people's trust, the country will go to ruin, etc if they are executed. So even though they deserve death, the King should keep them in exile. (This is the cheap stunt ending version). 2. Crown Prince says the criminals must be executed. Later he tells Queen (after she peels herself off the ceiling) his reasoning for going against her wishes. He explains that in some way this will make the King trust him and think more highly of him, show the King that he is learning how to play politics and will make a good king, and that this will help protect the remaining two brothers, because the King will think the prince will not fall under their influence. Queen may or may not feel appeased. I find it really hard to believe the Prince would suddenly stop loving his uncles.
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Post by sageuk on Apr 17, 2022 11:23:05 GMT -5
If I had a nickel every time a KBS historical with Yangnyeong in it has him lead his uncles to their deaths, I’d have two nickels.
Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it’s happened twice.
No clue if there are other series that take this approach though.
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Post by truth on Apr 21, 2022 9:07:02 GMT -5
“The criminals committed a grave crime, so take the advice of your subjects and sentence them to the death penalty.” Anybody see that coming? Liar liar pants on fire! For once they came up with an ending that got your attention. Especially because we know that in real history the queen went bonkers when Taejong switched crown princes because she supported Yangnyeong so strongly. But here she’s gone bonkers AT Yangnyeong well before that time. So what’s going on here—have the writers yet again cashed in a chip too early for the sake of juicing up the drama? I hope this fun ending doesn’t turn out to be a cheap stunt. Historically, Yangnyeong did ask Taejong to punish the Min brothers, but did not ask for death penalty. He pretty much just said they deserve punishment for their wrongdoings. Writers took liberty with asking for death penalty part.
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Post by sageuk on Apr 22, 2022 20:00:29 GMT -5
I mentioned this before, but Yangnyeong not being able to see his grandfather until after he passes away got a little personal.
At least he got to attend his funeral.
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Post by simisteve on May 12, 2022 23:56:47 GMT -5
The scenes with Tajeo & Tejong actually work for me. In it, Tajeo sees the anguish in his son that he predicted and called for given his treatment of his family. He gets the retribution he called for back in the episode when he curses his son for locking him up in the palace. I think that settled it for him. I gave him the ease of mind to be "nice enough" to pour the cup of wine and pay respect for the King and then leave...he knew he was near his end so this made it easier to tie up loose ends.
Also, that scene between them in his chambers: I believe that this may make the opening scene in the series (where LBW is ranting to the Crown Prince) moot. We see the weight of crushing guilt coming to bear on Bangwon despite his best efforts to fool himself, and that he is indeed reaping the sorrow of dealing with a son as incorrigible as he was to his father. I think this may have been written to give the writers an out from having to include that scene in the series when it should occur.
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