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Post by ajk on Dec 26, 2021 2:48:25 GMT -5
...should be up on Kocowa within 24 hours.
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episode 6
Dec 26, 2021 23:43:54 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 𝔰𝔢𝔞𝔫𝔪𝔞𝔠𝔩𝔞𝔦𝔯 on Dec 26, 2021 23:43:54 GMT -5
That last scene would be so much more suspenseful if the opening title hadn't already promised us a Seonjuk Bridge scene.
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Post by sageuk on Dec 27, 2021 0:23:53 GMT -5
So not only was the land reform debacle removed, the accusation that Jeong Dojeon is supposedy descended from a servant isn't present.
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Post by ajk on Dec 27, 2021 1:04:57 GMT -5
Kocowa isn’t giving us the opening titles before the epsides now. I put up a sticky thread with a YouTube link if anyone wants to watch them before the episodes.
“Fortunately they climbed a big tree and survived.” Seriously? They built a prison on a flood plain and the big prison cell is a death trap? And that was the first heavy rain at that location ever, so they had no idea it might flood and require temporarily moving the prisoners for their safety? Good grief stop it. I’m not going to go through item by item (partly because I don’t know every last little detail of the real story like others do), but the writers are starting to really play fast and loose with some things. Not only is some of it implausible but eventually it’s going to get them into trouble and harm the storyline. I guarantee it. We’ve seen it happen over and over again in other series.
JM: “Have you become a demon?” Yeah he sort of has...in the JD series he definitely came across as passionately devoted to his cause, but showing up at the prison and explicitly saying It’s too bad you’re not all dead, geez that’s cold.
JD: “And you have become an idiot.” Okay that was darned funny. Very much doubt that the real JD ever talked like that, but this version of JD, you can believe it.
...”you can listen and watch the sentiment of the people. Please visit everywhere, from the back alleys to the main street, to listen to the voice of the people.” And we saw a little of that, yaaaayyy....
The wife: “Please do not make a harsh judgment. That is disobedience to our father.” Okay here’s another problem. That was is the first time since Lee Seonggye said not to hurt Jeong Mongju that anyone else has said a word to Bangwon about it. The guy who put the hit on two freaking kings. Wouldn’t you think that after LSG gave his instruction, somebody at some point would make sure to tell Bangwon not to even think about repeating what he did? In fact when LSG gave the instruction at that family meeting, I was shocked that they all didn’t turn to Bangwon and say This means you, pal, or words to that effect. No wonder he pulled the knife out at the end of the episode. How could nobody think he’d be harboring those thoughts? Blecch.
So Bangwon is left up there all alone? They didn’t even leave him a servant to help him? The guy has a desk job, he’s never going to survive up there by himself. Look at him trying to split those logs, he's going to cut his leg off. LSG would never have done that (even if he did in fact make such a request of Bangwon). It's ridiculous.
That is the smallest burial mound I have ever seen.
And now what’s this, has Mongju become Bangwon’s grief therapist? And why is he staying there overnight? He paid his respects and this isn’t so far away from civilization that he can’t get back to a comfier bed before dark. A lot of things are being over-staged and it’s starting to bug me. Not real thrilled with this episode.
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Post by 𝔰𝔢𝔞𝔫𝔪𝔞𝔠𝔩𝔞𝔦𝔯 on Dec 27, 2021 1:07:53 GMT -5
I honestly found it really funny watching Bangwon flail with the firewood 🤣
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Post by ajk on Dec 27, 2021 1:09:56 GMT -5
Yeah giving him an axe was like giving Ralphie the Red Rider BB Gun...you'll shoot your eye out, kid.
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Post by truth on Dec 27, 2021 1:42:52 GMT -5
“Fortunately they climbed a big tree and survived.” Seriously? They built a prison on a flood plain and the big prison cell is a death trap? And that was the first heavy rain at that location ever, so they had no idea it might flood and require temporarily moving the prisoners for their safety? Good grief stop it. I’m not going to go through item by item (partly because I don’t know every last little detail of the real story like others do), but the writers are starting to really play fast and loose with some things. Not only is some of it implausible but eventually it’s going to get them into trouble and harm the storyline. I guarantee it. We’ve seen it happen over and over again in other series. What are you talking about? This is the most historically accurate part of this episode. This is exactly what happend in history. They really did climb up a big tree and survived from the flood. And this really was the reason King Gongyang freed them in history saying "This proves that even the sky knows they are innocent." The tree they climbed to survive has now been desingated as North Chungcheong Province's provincial treasure. There is even a monument built by the North Chungcheong Provicial government to honor the event. blog.daum.net/99sangk/574Here are some pictures of the tree and the monument. The English translation of the monument says "dozens of scholars", but the Korean description lists Lee Saek and Kwon Geun among the people who survived by climbing the tree. And now what’s this, has Mongju become Bangwon’s grief therapist? And why is he staying there overnight? He paid his respects and this isn’t so far away from civilization that he can’t get back to a comfier bed before dark. A lot of things are being over-staged and it’s starting to bug me. Not real thrilled with this episode. I have a feeling that the last scene with Lee Bangwon attempting to stab Jeong Mongju while asleep might be inspired from the part in Chinese novel Romance of Three Kingdoms where Cao Cao tries to stab Dong Zhuo while asleep. Cao Cao is the founder of Chinese Wei Dynasty and Dong Zhuo is basically the Lee In Yim of Han Dynasty.
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Post by mugwump on Dec 28, 2021 15:24:03 GMT -5
So now I think I understand a part in Tears of the Dragon where it seemed like Bang Won was living in a little straw hut. I didn't get the connection with his mother's death. I thought he'd been banished or something. It's really too bad Tears of the Dragon is not subbed.
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Post by ajk on Dec 30, 2021 23:07:58 GMT -5
The prison-flood thing...If something like what we saw actually happened in real history, then great I'm more than happy to bury my head in ignorance and credit the writers for including it. I don't recall this being shown in Jeong Dojeon so if they decided to make sure it was part of the story, then wonderful. Well done.
But the objection stands. What we saw was ridiculous. Heavy rain, a bunch of prisoners standing in a locked yard yelling, and guards running around asking what to do. There was no reason to believe that anyone was in danger of anything more than damp underwear. Remember this was right after the brilliant Jeong Dojeon was supposedly too stupid to stay out of a raging current and nearly died. Why should we buy either of those things? Give us a look at the prison ahead of time and explain why the situation would be so dangerous--it was foolishly built in a bad location, this was a once-in-a-millennium flood situation, whatever the reason. For that matter show us the tree too, so we can believe that a giant tree big enough to hold all of those people was left intact inside a prison. It's an extraordinary story and it can't be just tossed out there so casually, especially since the writers have already shown us they have no problem taking liberties with the real story.
Anyway thanks for the link to the pictures...that tree definitely is strong enough to hold a bunch of people.
p.s. One detail that I found from the JD episode summaries is that LSG asked both Bangwon and Banggu to do the mourning for their mother. That would make a lot more sense than Bangwon trying to do it alone.
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Post by truth on Dec 30, 2021 23:48:39 GMT -5
The prison-flood thing...If something like what we saw actually happened in real history, then great I'm more than happy to bury my head in ignorance and credit the writers for including it. I don't recall this being shown in Jeong Dojeon so if they decided to make sure it was part of the story, then wonderful. Well done. The writer probably wanted to include historical fact that wasn't shown in Jeong Dojeon. Vice versa, I think writer skipped the land reform part since it was already covered in Jeong Dojeon. This drama covers timeline from 1388 to 1418, but only has total of 32 episodes. They can't cover everything that happened during 30 years in just 32 episodes.
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Post by ajk on Jan 1, 2022 14:20:32 GMT -5
That's definitely true...but I'm also betting that we won't get any of the more substantive issues like land reform because they're trying to hard to make it a character drama and lean on the family story so hard. Not sure that putting Bangwon in the middle of every sinngle thing is going to be worth the tradeoff, but we'll see.
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Post by sageuk on Jan 1, 2022 17:19:56 GMT -5
They even excluded the accusation that Jeong Dojeon is descended from the lower class, instead going with him being guilty of imprisoning innocent people due to the heavens declaring them innocent.
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Post by truth on Jan 1, 2022 19:32:38 GMT -5
They even excluded the accusation that Jeong Dojeon is descended from the lower class, instead going with him being guilty of imprisoning innocent people due to the heavens declaring them innocent. About that... You might have a different opinion after watching next episode.
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Post by sageuk on Jan 1, 2022 22:22:47 GMT -5
I spoke waaaaaaay too soon.
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Post by simisteve on Jan 31, 2022 12:42:25 GMT -5
FWIW, this episode aired Sunday nite (1/30) in LA. It was the first full episode I've been able to see, and the opening panel credits indicated "Episode 6". Because the LA station has edited episodes in the past, I can confirm this episode began with Bangwon & JDJ eating at a charcoal grill talking about JM. The episode ended with Bangwon holding the knife above JM in the shack. Running time was pretty short, about 35 minutes (9:30-10:05) with NO commercial break, which is unusual as here, KBS America dramas here have always had at least one mid-way commercial break of about 3-5 minutes.
I'll say this much: the series is beautifully shot. Whoever the cinematographer is, he really knows his stuff, as the outdoor scenes are amazing, and the staged lighting is terrific. I'm still trying to figure out who-is-who at this point, so I'll withhold commentary on the story for now.
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