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Post by mugwump on Oct 23, 2009 6:01:48 GMT -5
I've only seen Ep 44 without the subs, but I really thought Mishil was setting Deokman up to make it seem like Deokman was plotting a coup, and then Mishil's forces would step in to stop her. Sejong was wearing something to make it only seem like he was wounded when the Hwarang stabbed him (at least that's what I thought). And I believe the archer was dressed like one of Yushin's nangdo's to make it look like Deokman's people started the fighting. So is this the case, or is Mishil really "coup"ing herself. Of course, she can always say she needs to take control to prevent nefarious people like Deokman from seizing control. I doubt she really intended to kill Sejong, he's the prime minister and will lend credibility to whatever Mishil does. "Never kill someone who is still useful to us".
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chuck
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Post by chuck on Oct 23, 2009 14:17:26 GMT -5
I've only seen Ep 44 without the subs, but I really thought Mishil was setting Deokman up to make it seem like Deokman was plotting a coup, and then Mishil's forces would step in to stop her. Sejong was wearing something to make it only seem like he was wounded when the Hwarang stabbed him (at least that's what I thought). And I believe the archer was dressed like one of Yushin's nangdo's to make it look like Deokman's people started the fighting. So is this the case, or is Mishil really "coup"ing herself. Of course, she can always say she needs to take control to prevent nefarious people like Deokman from seizing control. I doubt she really intended to kill Sejong, he's the prime minister and will lend credibility to whatever Mishil does. "Never kill someone who is still useful to us". Mishil definitely was making it appear as if Deokman was attempting a coup. Lord Sejong was actually stabbed, though, but in a way designed to injure, not kill. They said he was killed, but since he apparently was not, they will have to explain that discrepancy. They will probably put it down to the "fog of battle." Now that I think about it more, the King is still in power. Is Mishil's coup simply to make herself the heir to the throne, since apparently Deokman and Chunchu cannot be trusted? She can 't be the King as long as the King is still around. If that is the case, then there is still time for Deokman to regain her place. Perhaps by exposing some of Mishil's wrongdoing in the current coup, or her past crimes.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 24, 2009 12:55:37 GMT -5
I agree. Lord Sejong was supposed to be wounded. That was the plan. There was so much going on that it didn't matter if one plot failed. I did notice the uniform Dae Nambo was wearing too.
I thought Mishil wanted to have Chunchu take the throne so she could marry him, at first anyway. She failed to become the Queen of King Jinheung. He knew her very well and said, "Mishil will become a treacherous poison afflicting this country". She lied about the King's last wishes and had his 2nd son (Prince Geumnyun) rise to the throne because she wanted to marry him. The grandson was just a boy at the time. Again she failed when he didn't marry her. She later had him deposed by reading King Jinheung's true wishes. She intended to marry the next King by kidnapping and killing Maya. She failed again. Although she held enormous power, she coveted the crown. Mishil mentioned lately that she should have thought of being the King 10 years ago. I believe that's why she's using every trick in the book to accomplish her dream this time. She's ruthless and will do whatever it takes. Remember when she killed the soldiers for letting Sohwa get away with the baby (Deokman)? She doesn't tolerate mistakes. Mishil's plan was an excellent maneuver. From all perspectives it looks as if Deokman and her people were the initiators of the mayhem. It'll be interesting to see how Deokman and her people regain control.
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Post by mugwump on Oct 24, 2009 13:57:15 GMT -5
Yes, next week will be very interesting. Previews show Deokman back in her nangdo clothes. Is she going underground? Mishil may be playing the dirty card, but she sure has this all well planned. The "good" ministers and Yushin and Alcheon have played right into her hands. And although they're yelling that the prime minister has been killed, I'm sure they'll discover when the dust settles, that he's only been wounded. "Initial reports of the Prime Minister's death have been grossly exaggerated " . And this reminds me of the scene in Emperor of the Sea where Jang BoGo "kills" the Boss in the gladiator match. Knowledge of anatomy is a good thing) It's a good thing Deokman now has ChunChu on her side. His brains will certainly come in handy, especially if Archeon and Yushin get carted off to jail. A couple of questions - What was that little red thing that Seolwan swiped from Yongchun's house and gave to Mishil? It looked like a little fabric-covered pamphlet. Mishil said something about it being useful in case their plan fails. What's she got up her sleeve for Bidam? When she and Seolwan were talking she said something like "Yes, it's Bidam". One other - it was a little odd when Hajong asked Yushin's wife when the baby was due and she didn't answer, and they mentioned that she looked pale. What's up there?
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chuck
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Post by chuck on Oct 24, 2009 19:53:45 GMT -5
A couple of questions - What was that little red thing that Seolwan swiped from Yongchun's house and gave to Mishil? It looked like a little fabric-covered pamphlet. Mishil said something about it being useful in case their plan fails. What's she got up her sleeve for Bidam? When she and Seolwan were talking she said something like "Yes, it's Bidam". One other - it was a little odd when Hajong asked Yushin's wife when the baby was due and she didn't answer, and they mentioned that she looked pale. What's up there? Good questions. When she said "It's Bidam," I thought she was just talking about who she wanted to get out of the way when all these coup events were taking place. Could be wrong though. As for Yushin's wife, I don't remember that line. But, the way you describe it, it makes one suspect that maybe . . . she never was pregnant? Just a ruse?
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 26, 2009 22:51:54 GMT -5
mugwump, I was wondering what that red satin thing was too. I assumed he stole it from Yongchun but if not, where did he get it and what is it? You can tell it's very important though judging by Seolwan's reaction and his questioning Mishil about it. Interestingly in the previews, Sohwa was holding what looked like the same thing. Is that the same one or another one? By the look on Seolwan's face, I was wondering if Mishil told him Bidam was her son. I also wondered why she wanted Bidam away for two days. Bidam told that back-stabbing merchant Yeomjong that the Princess was in danger and Yushin, Chunchu and Alcheon were being fooled and he was the only one to see through it. Did Mishil anticipate this or was she trying to protect him so she could "use" him for some devious purpose? I just thought Yushin's wife acted shy when asked about her due date. I also thought Hajong was trying to think of things to say and that's why he said she looked pale. I could be wrong but it didn't stand out to me. I'm afraid what's going to happen. They fell for every one of Mishil's traps.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 27, 2009 15:35:07 GMT -5
Episode 45This was a very tense episode. I was so glad to see Chilsuk help Sohwa at first but ultimately he took the King's royal seal from her. I really thought she'd get away. Now there's no stopping Mishil from arresting her enemies. The one nangdo is suspicious about the stabbing of Sejong. I was wondering if anyone noticed what happened because he was surrounded by the Hwarang loyal to Mishil. Everyone else was preoccupied. I dread watching the next episode with Yushin, his father Seohyeon, Alcheon, Yungchun and the Hwarang being tortured. I really hate Mishil now. I don't understand how the Hwarang's involved in this plot could go along with Seolwon and Bojang. Don't they have any loyalty to the royal family and where's their sense of honor? They know it's wrong. They weren't taught that. There are a few that question the orders they're given but obey anyway. The ending was heart wrenching. Thank God Bidam showed up with those men. I'm wondering if that red pouch with the paper inside that Sohwa read is Bidam's birth certificate. If it is, how did she get it? Did that merchant steal it while Bidam was knocked out?
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chuck
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Post by chuck on Oct 27, 2009 22:14:43 GMT -5
Well, that was an action packed episode. I cannot believe Mishil has really done this. She has simply given up all pretense of honor, and become a brutal "strongman," like any two-bit dictator. They all justify their coups with trumped up evidence of danger to the republic, just as she is doing. I never thought she'd lay hands on the King. She has simply thrown honor to the winds.
Bidam was driving me crazy with his procrastinating. But finally he showed up and saved the Princess. Someone mentioned the men with him might have been his nangdo's, which he apparently trained in secret, in his own martial arts. They sure came in handy.
Everyone is laying it on the line now: the Daedung who threatened to kill himself, Sowha, Godo, Archeon, Chunchu, Yushin. What a glorious retinue Deokman has gathered around herself.
I'm wondering if JukBang might run into Sowha in the secret corridors, and they somehow make their escape with that incriminating evidence in the red silk pouch.
I don't know what the letter is about. I thought Bidam's relation to Mishil was rather an open secret. I was sure that Seolwon (Mishil's right hand man) was aware of it.
I guess one of the big tests will come when Bidam has to choose between, perhaps, killing his mother, or letting her destroy Deokman. Obviously, no one wants to kill their own mother, but this Mishil is one who could drive a son to do it.
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chuck
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Post by chuck on Oct 28, 2009 14:31:58 GMT -5
Episode 46. Mishil justified her coup by saying Yushin and Alcheon entered the Hwaebak council with drawn swords. Then she turns around and has one of the Royal councillors murdered in the Royal Throne room, because he questioned her authority. She acts more like Adolph with each episode.
It seems pretty clear that a growing number of nobles are seeing Mishil for what she really is. All she has now is pure force to keep herself in power---all her "people" will revolt at the first hint of an opportunity. Especialy the noble who brought the 5,000 troops to Seorobal, and is now being seperated from his army by Mishil. And the other Hwarangs are growing restive, as well.
On the other hand, it looks like Chilsuk is about to capture Deokman. Then it will be up to Bidam and Chunchu to save them.
Sowha did bring the letter in the red pouch out of the palace. It's not clear if she showed it to Deokman yet. But Bidam looked concerned about it, so perhaps it does have to do with his birth, after all. I don't see how that could save Mishil from a failure of the coup, though.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 28, 2009 18:14:44 GMT -5
Episode 46It was hard to watch this episode. I had to turn the volume off and peek through my fingers. We've come to know the characters so it made it all the more emotional. Wicked witch Mishil! Seolwan and Chilsuk aren't any better. Seolwan (Mishil's lover and right hand man) is quite the strategist too as we've seen in past episodes. The biggest shocker, well not really considering the ruthlessness Mishil is showing, she wanted Bidam killed. So that explains what she wanted the merchant,Yeomjong to do. There's nothing like a mother's love. What a tragedy to see all the Hwarang that were tortured to death. I hope Alcheon and the others will be rescued soon. I was wondering if that one Hwarang (Bakui) was going to say anything to the others about seeing Seokpum stab Lord Sejong. I always thought that one group of Hwarang should be on Deokman's side. They seem to be men with a conscience and honorable. Hopefully they will defect now. I figured Mishil would either have the King poisoned or force him to abdicate. Will he die first? The situation looks hopeless for Deokman, Yushin &CO.. I don't see any way out unless Lord Jijin's army comes to the rescue. Bidam certainly noticed the red pouch/envelope Sohwa was holding. I'm not sure either why Mishil wanted it. We knew she already figured out Bidam was her son. I agree chuck. Total dictatorship. Weapon control, separate the nobles from their armies, no public gatherings of more than 5 people, rule with terror etc.. It looks like most of the nobles and some of Mishil's Hwarang realize the truth now. Are they going to torture the Queen and Yushin's mother now? What's the deal of a public interrogation?
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chuck
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Post by chuck on Oct 28, 2009 18:27:01 GMT -5
Episode 46 The biggest shocker, well not really considering the ruthlessness Mishil is showing, she wanted Bidam killed. So that explains what she wanted the merchant,Yeomjong to do. There's nothing like a mother's love. Is that how you understood that scene? It seemed to me that it was only her advisors who thought Bidam was supposed to be killed. I think they just assumed that, and were wrong. She only wanted him kept away until the coup was complete. I think that is what she was referring to as her "mistake." She succumbed to a bit of motherly feeling, and now regrets it. But, I could be wrong.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 28, 2009 18:47:32 GMT -5
Is that how you understood that scene? It seemed to me that it was only her advisors who thought Bidam was supposed to be killed. I think they just assumed that, and were wrong. She only wanted him kept away until the coup was complete. I think that is what she was referring to as her "mistake." She succumbed to a bit of motherly feeling, and now regrets it. But, I could be wrong. I thought all of them including Mishil were upset that he wasn't dead. I guess we'll have to watch that part over again.
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Post by mugwump on Oct 28, 2009 20:27:59 GMT -5
Two great episodes even though Mishil has the upper hand.
Bidam - I think Mishil truly only wanted to get him out of the way for a few days a) so he couldn't help Deokman, and b) so he would not be tainted by anything going on. I think her insurance, in case things went wrong, was to put Bidam forward as the next king. And I think it was a great guess that the red envelope holds Bidam's birth certificate saying he's the son of Mishil and the previous king. If she can't be king, she could at least be a queen mother. But I could be wrong. Maesung obviously thought Mishil had ordered Bidam killed, which surprised me. If it is the birth certificate, I don't know how Mishil would have known that Bidam had it, or how she got it from him.
Really fun martial arts in this one. Yushin and Alcheon were really kicking heinie. Meanwhile Chunchu, who was so puffed up a few episodes ago, is hiding behind Deokman's skirt (so to speak). I guess he really doesn't know how to use a sword. He should have paid more attention when Yushin and Bidam were trying to teach him.
A couple of quibbles about 45. The whole idea of Mishil needing to find the royal seal was hokey, because she is the SAEJU, the keeper of the seal. She must surely have access to it 24-7. With all the other meticulous planning, she would have made sure to take the seal before the coup started. So this plotline, though entertaining, was a bit contrived. Same goes with Yushin staying behind at the gate. The people outside the gate had horses, the soldiers inside did not. All of them could have easily gotten away without Yushin having to stay behind to buy time. It would have made a little more sense if he had said, "I'm staying behind to see if I can help my father".
Tremendous acting by Mishil in 46. First the scene where she finds out Deokman escaped with Bidam's help. Then the scene in the throne room where she finally sits on the throne and is so thrilled to finally be there that her whole body is practically quivering with excitement. Bravo!
Poor Alcheon. Yushin got off easy, while he seems to have taken the brunt of the torture. Yushin sure made a speedy recovery, didn't he? And all those poor dead nangdos in blue and yellow.
Really bad luck that Chilsuk was spying and found out about the plan to rescue Yushin, leading him right to Deokman.
Time for Deokman to start really using her noodle again.
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Post by griffin on Oct 28, 2009 21:30:37 GMT -5
;D I am not watching 45 - 46 for the moment. I wanna wait till I hear something about Mishil's downfall and then watch everything in one swoop. I so hate hanging on by my nails (so to speak) week by week. Especially, these few exciting intense weeks.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 28, 2009 22:26:10 GMT -5
Maybe you both are right. I just thought since Mishil's brother and son wanted to know why Bidam was still alive, the plan was to kill him on the trip. Yeomjong wanted to know how Bidam was connected to Mishil. He had him tied up and could have left him that way for the two days if it was only to keep him out of the city. Instead he was truly frightened and asked Bidam at the risk of making an enemy of Mishil, to convince him as to why he should let him go. That's how it hit me when I watched it. Maybe I read too much into it. The more I think about it, if that's a record of Bidam's birth and Mishil's plan fails and she tries to put him on the throne, Deokman and Chunchu would both have to be killed first. Not that she would have a problem with that. Bidam would then be next in line. As for Mishil knowing about the red pouch, which I believe is the one Bidam found amongst Munno's things, I wonder if the merchant found it. Bidam has been staying with Yeomjong and maybe he snooped like Sohwa did in Mishil's basement. Just a wild guess. Yes, the fight scenes with team Yushin and Alcheon were great. I think if Bidam wasn't there to help Deokman to safety, Yushin wouldn't have stayed behind plus it made for another great fight. Yushin, Alcheon and the other nangdos are the best. You knew none of them would betray the Princess or one another. I agree about the seal. You'd think when Deokman started taking precautions with the King's medicine and food, they should have hidden the seal where it couldn't be found. (Definitely not up Sohwa's skirt at the last minute) Right now I hope Chilsuk and organ grinder monkey man get what's coming to them.
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