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Post by mugwump on Oct 1, 2009 17:03:11 GMT -5
Episodes up through 38 are available on Mysoju.
The comparison to Eddie Munster is apt. I guess it's really hard to make a men's wig with a natural looking hairline. Good thing that most of the men wear those headbands, so the fakeness is not as noticeable. The women's wigs probably look better because they can blend them in with their real hair.
OK, we had one episode of sturm und drang and now we're back to Team Deokman business as usual. Go team go! There was such a disconnect between 37 and 38 in mood that it almost seems as if something got left out somewhere. But I'm glad the princess is using her noodle again and going on the offensive.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 1, 2009 21:43:29 GMT -5
There was such a disconnect between 37 and 38 in mood that it almost seems as if something got left out somewhere. But I'm glad the princess is using her noodle again and going on the offensive. Episode 38I felt the same way but it's good to see Deokman sparring with Mishil again. Her time at the trading post came in handy once more. I hope she wins this one. Chunchu has a new teacher, hilarious. Bidam won't be as accommodating as Yushin. ;D
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Oct 3, 2009 1:12:51 GMT -5
Through episode 28. It was great to see Deokman outwit Mishil on the solar eclipse. It wasn't until Mishil declared to the King that the eclipse would not happen that I realized the triple cross Deokman had pulled. Beautiful. Still haven't caught a glimpse of Chinchilla.
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Oct 3, 2009 18:58:20 GMT -5
I took someone's advice and began watching the further episodes on MySoju. I've watched through episode 30 now, where we were left hanging on the scene in which Princess Deokman came face to face with Sowha.
Unfortunately, the next episode, and the one after that, will not load. They are both from "Ning," as are several earlier and several later episodes, which all work and load fine. Only 31 and 32 do not load. I reported them as broken links/ blank screens. Does anyone know how long it takes MySoju to fix such problems?
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Post by mugwump on Oct 4, 2009 16:14:47 GMT -5
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Post by mugwump on Oct 4, 2009 16:46:49 GMT -5
I forgot what else I was going to ask. Can someone explain the Shilla bone rank system, what it means to be seongol or jingol? I got very confused when the merchant said that if King Jinji hadn't been deposed, Chinchilla would have been seongol (implying that he is not, and further implying he is not at the head of the line of succession). We know Deokman is seongol (because she said so); this means Cheungmyung was also seongol. Why would the present king have had Cheungmyung marry the deposed Jinji's son, if they already knew that their offspring would not be seongol? Wouldn't he have arranged a marriage with another seongol? And then they were going to have Cheungmyung marry Yushin to produce an heir to the throne, so presumably their offspring would have been considered more "royal" than Cheungmyungs's first son Chinchilla. Is Yushin seongol, is it enough that his mother's the king's sister? If Chinchilla is not seongol, that also means Bidam is not seongol,right? (Bidam is also a son of Jinji). Munno told Deokman that traditionally the throne was handed down from father to oldest son; that makes it sound like Chinchilla would be next in line (if girls are excluded). This all makes my head spin. At least it's not as confusing as the succession issues at the start of Koryo.
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chuck
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Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Oct 4, 2009 20:07:12 GMT -5
Thanks for the link, I'll give it a try.
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Post by consoleman on Oct 4, 2009 20:16:36 GMT -5
I forgot what else I was going to ask. Can someone explain the Shilla bone rank system, what it means to be seongol or jingol? I got very confused when the merchant said that if King Jinji hadn't been deposed, Chinchilla would have been seongol (implying that he is not, and further implying he is not at the head of the line of succession). We know Deokman is seongol (because she said so); this means Cheungmyung was also seongol. Why would the present king have had Cheungmyung marry the deposed Jinji's son, if they already knew that their offspring would not be seongol? Wouldn't he have arranged a marriage with another seongol? And then they were going to have Cheungmyung marry Yushin to produce an heir to the throne, so presumably their offspring would have been considered more "royal" than Cheungmyungs's first son Chinchilla. Is Yushin seongol, is it enough that his mother's the king's sister? If Chinchilla is not seongol, that also means Bidam is not seongol,right? (Bidam is also a son of Jinji). Munno told Deokman that traditionally the throne was handed down from father to oldest son; that makes it sound like Chinchilla would be next in line (if girls are excluded). This all makes my head spin. At least it's not as confusing as the succession issues at the start of Koryo. Kim Yusin is not Seongol or Jingol, he was not related to royal family of Silla Kingdom. If Princess Cheonmyung had married Kim Yusin and had son, then the Son would have been Jingol. Jingol usually means half Seongol blood. Someone posted this at other forum, this might help to understand the bone rank system. Bone rank is divided into two major bones: 1. Seon-gol (성골) or Sacred bone - Highest rank class, usually for exclusive for royals, need to qualify both Seon-gol royal blood of mother & father sides to be true Seon-gol. 2. Jin-Gol (진골) or True bone - Second highest rank class, again usually for royals but only one sided royal blood from either mother or father. 3. Rest of other six ranks are for Shilla's aristocrats and other royals/aristocrats from other tribal factions/kingdoms (such as Gaya), highest among six ranks are called "Achan", usually called Dae-Achan. Among Seon-gol; there were only three family names park or Pak 박(朴), Seok 석(昔) and Kim 김(金) from Saro-guk (Saro Kingdom), any mixed descendants with one of these three Seon-gol royal are knonw as Jin-gol. Btw, Saro state was one of small state under Jin-han federation, so there are questions unanswered how only Saro state royals became Seon-gol when other state royals were not. Shilla's Seon-gol rank ended with Queen Jindeok & Kim Chunchu (28th & 29th rulers of Shilla), then rest of Shilla's rulers were dominated from Jin-gol and Achan ranks. Even from the beginning of Seon-gol rank royals, there was legend of final days of Seon-gol when twin girls are born from Seon-gol ruler. Well, this legend came true when 26th ruler of Shilla "Jinpyeong" had twin girl babies. because two became first female Seon-gol rulers of Shilla and final Seon-gol rulers. Hwabaek (화백) is tribal leaders council: While the king (or queen in some cases) theoretically held absolute power in Shilla, royal aristocratic councils held significant political power. Since the Three Kingdoms period, the "Hwabaek" served as the chief royal council of Shilla with the purpose of deliberating on the most important administrative decisions of the state such as succession or declarations of war. This council was headed by only an individual of the highest "bone rank." It was the Hwabaek that made the critical decision of the Shilla court to formally adopt Buddhism as the state religion. Because bot Seon-gol and Jin-gol people were Shaman, adoption of Buddhism by Hwabaek made significant difference in politics in Shilla. Not only this, Hwabaek favored Jin-gol over Seon-gol, which eventually made way for Jin-gol seizing political power in Shilla. Hwabaek is similar to these at Goguryeo's five royal clan council. Also, Hwabaek have power to replace Shilla's ruler. Without Hwabaek's support, Shilla's ruler can not raise war. The last Seon-gol ruler of Shilla was Kim Chunchu.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 5, 2009 22:25:22 GMT -5
consoleman, you changed the last sentence from the post at The China History Forum. It reads, "The last major Seonggol ruler of Shilla was "Queen Seondeok".
Only those holding sacred bone rank were permitted to assume the throne. This led to the crowning of Queen Seondeok in 632 and Queen Jindeok in 647, because no males of the sacred bone rank were available. This situation may have led to its subsequent abolition.
According to the encyclopedia, Kim Chunchu ascended the throne as a Jinggol.
Kim Chunchu was born with the rank of seonggol (sacred blood or bone). His father was Kim Youngchun (the son of King Jinji). BUT When King Jinji was overthrown, all royalty from his line were deemed unfit to rule over the kingdom. This fate was brought down upon Kim Youngchun and Kim Chunchu. Kim Youngchun was one of the most powerful people in the government. However, against Kim Bekban, the younger brother of the king at this time, Kim Youngchun lost all of his power. In order to survive, he had to become a jinggol, the rank that was right below seonggol. Therefore, he lost his chance of becoming the king, and so did his child, Kim Chunchu. However, when all the Seonggols were dead, somebody with the royal blood in the Jinggol rank had to succeed the throne. The people in the government wanted Kim Alcheon to succeed the throne. His dad was a seonggol, who married a jinggol wife so that his son would not be a seonggol and suffer from the fight for the throne. However, Kim Yushin supported Kim Chunchu, and Kim Alcheon refused the throne and supported Kim Chunchu. As a result, Chunchu (King Taejong Muyeol) took the throne in 654. (After Queen Seondeok's cousin Queen Jindeok, who ruled from 647- 654)
Kim Yushin was the son of General Kim Seohyeon and Lady Manmyeong, who was a daughter of King Jinheung. Yushin was the great-grandchild of King Guhyeong of Gaya (Kaya) the last ruler of the Gaya state. King Guhyeong surrendered to the Shilla forces and brought his family and his treasures to Shilla. He was received with ceremony and his family were admitted to the second-highest rank of the Shilla bone rank system, the "true bone." (jinggol)
Bidam wouldn't be seonggol since his mother is Mishil (a concubine).
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Oct 6, 2009 0:07:03 GMT -5
I watched through episode 35. I guess both Bidam and Mishil know who they are to each other, now. That can't be good.
So now I've met Chunchu/Chinchilla. I know he was pretending to be a complete incompetent on the way home. I can't tell yet, though, if his coldness towards Deokman is still part of an act, and his leaning towards the Mishil gang, too. Maybe he's just trying to infiltrate their ranks, and so must pretend to dislike Deokman. I hope so, anyway. I really don't see how being sent to China, for his own protection, would cause him to hate his mother, or his mother's sister. That makes no sense.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 6, 2009 12:58:28 GMT -5
I watched through episode 35. I guess both Bidam and Mishil know who they are to each other, now. That can't be good. So now I've met Chunchu/Chinchilla. I know he was pretending to be a complete incompetent on the way home. I can't tell yet, though, if his coldness towards Deokman is still part of an act, and his leaning towards the Mishil gang, too. Maybe he's just trying to infiltrate their ranks, and so must pretend to dislike Deokman. I hope so, anyway. I really don't see how being sent to China, for his own protection, would cause him to hate his mother, or his mother's sister. That makes no sense. Very good Chuck, you're catching up. ;D I think Chunchu really does blame Deokman. If she didn't come back, his mother would still be alive. He also has resentment towards his mother for promising to bring him home year after year and now she's dead. I'm sure he felt unwanted or abandoned. He's pretending to be effeminate and air headed so nobody suspects him as he's observing both camps. I just hope he chooses the right side. In history Chunchu was well acquainted with Emperor Gaozong of the Tang Dynasty, for he and the Emperor were friends before the Emperor became an Emperor. I don't know whether he traveled to Tang or was sent there by his mother as the drama portrays. I agree, Bidam finding out that Mishil is his mother can't be good. I hope he doesn't join forces with her. He does have the lust for power and he's got a screw loose. He can be good and loyal when he wants to though.
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chuck
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Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Oct 6, 2009 20:52:44 GMT -5
Very good Chuck, you're catching up. ;D I think Chunchu really does blame Deokman. If she didn't come back, his mother would still be alive. He also has resentment towards his mother for promising to bring him home year after year and now she's dead. I'm sure he felt unwanted or abandoned. He's pretending to be effeminate and air headed so nobody suspects him as he's observing both camps. I just hope he chooses the right side. That does seem to be his reasoning for his ill-treatment of Deokman. My point is that this is irrational. Deokman did not kill his sister. There is no rational way to blame her. In other words, if Chinchilla really is serious about blaming her, then he is irrational. I can understand forgiving the guy who did it, since he was following orders. On an unrelated note, I love the episode ending technique of showing a negative image of one of the characters, up among the stars. That's always a beautiful image.
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chuck
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Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Oct 6, 2009 23:41:58 GMT -5
Episode 37Oh no, Munno! I couldn't believe it, totally unexpected and heartbreaking. I wonder which one would have won if that didn't happen. Apparently Munno made some moves that Bidam never learned. I'm glad they reconciled but not at that price. Chunchu is a bigger mystery than ever. Was it his idea to get the books by any means possible or was it the man that did the deed? Two stunning episodes. If Chinchilla was behind what happened to Munno . . . I'm really going to hate him. And Bidam would have my blessing to make a fur coat out of him. But I still have to believe that he is being made to look bad, as a ruse--- like Aragorn in the Lord of the Rings. "All that's gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost . . . "
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 7, 2009 14:12:17 GMT -5
I don't think Chunchu should blame Deokman either. His anger should be directed at Mishil and Dae Nambo, the one that shot the poison arrow that was intended for Deokman. Instead Chunchu befriends him. I thought Chunchu was behind the killing of Munno at first but I'm thinking it's a ruse too. They want us to believe he's the culprit. I'm hoping he's infiltrating Mishil's camp so he can help Deokman. I can't believe Munno is dead. Chilsuk survived being injured and the fire at the trading post when he was trying to kill Deokman and Sohwa. We didn't get to see Munno enough. He was such a cool character. I really wanted to see some more sparring between the two. Episode 39 The "chess match" between Deokman and Mishil was great! At the end of the episode, you could just tell Deokman was going to do it. She really didn't have a choice though if she wanted to maintain her authority. She's the only one in the royal family that fights and stands up to Mishil. The King is so wimpy.
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Post by mugwump on Oct 7, 2009 20:39:30 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info on the bone rank system. Of course, this is now all being thoroughly discussed in Episode 40. Episode 39 was another wonderful show with lots of twists, and great sparring between Deokman and Mishil. I was kind of surprised that Mishil never imagined that Deokman wanted to be the next ruler. Deokman has really kept her off-balance. I'm still not sure of Chinchilla's true intentions. I do think, however, that he was not in on the killing of Munno. I think he somehow got together with the merchant to advance his interest in the throne, and the merchant killed Munno independently because he though the book might be useful to the prince. From the surprised look on Mishil and everyone else's faces at the end of 40, I'll bet Chinchilla is finally making his move, and we'll see what he's really up to in Ep 41.
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