When will the Yi clan return?

[kemamusa]

From the perspective of a historian who's heavily influenced by a neo-confucian culture like Joseon might see Joseon's crafts as beautiful because of its simplicity. The fact that most Korean historians are confucian scholars might explain why most Korean history books say Korea experience a great upgrade during Joseon dynasty.

I got to admit that there are some aspects of craftsmanship that had great improvements. For example, Joseon's high regard for literature resulted in great improvements for related crafts such as caligraphy and printing,. However, Joseon's confucian laws prohibited the posession of gold jewelry, silk /w detailed embroderies and many other luxury items. This combined with low regard for craftsmanship resulted in the obvious decline of craftsmanship in the areas of metalworks, woodworks, jewelry detailing, carving, etc.

1. Prohibition of luxury items
2. No respect for craftsmanship
3. No more international market

These three things made craftsmen's life in Joseon quite miserable, and because of this, the lineage of many artisan families ended during Joseon dynasty.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, so I agree with most Korean history books on the "beauty" of Joseon's arts and crafts. However, the level craftsmanship is more about difficulty in manufacturing and detailing than just about beauty. In this regard, Joseon was a step down from previous dynastys for reasons that I explained.

[KDS]

I agree,though they should have apprecieated fine art before.

[TheIceTiger]

uh i have just one more question, if the ming dynasty was still suffer from the independence from the mongols, what about koryo? didn't they also got attacked by the mongols? How did they come up with a army to try to conquer territory from ming dynasty?

[TifosoDiCorea]

kemamusa said:

well.. It depends on the point of view i guess.. From Yi clan's point view, it was the best thing ever happened to them, however, from the perspective of a person who loves Korean history(like me ), it was a bad bad thing..
Because of Yi Sungye's high regard for neo-confucian ideals and the idea of "Sadeh"(China is the big brother of Korea) several things happened. Most of them being negative.
Under neo-confucian laws, only litrature, farming and filial piety were considered valuable. On the other hand anything practical were considered to be lowly, so professionals in science, economy, warfare, manufacturing and craftsmanship were all given second or third class status. Here are the details of what happened:

1. Under Yi clan's rule in Joseon, craftsmanship was looked down upon as lowly and useless. As a result, fine arts, intricate detailing of jewelry and many other crafts were discouraged and the quality went down greatly. Under Joseon, the line of Koryo, Beckjeh and Shila's incredible craftsmanship ended.

2. According to the neo-confucian ideals, the practice of martial arts were discouraged and the warrior class was looked down upon. Well, that doesn't sound like a good idea when you got neighbours like China, Japan, Mongolia and Manchuria, does it?

3. According to the neo-confucian ideals, farming was regarded as the root of Korean economy. Because of this .. Despite the fact that almost half of the country's tax income was through commerce and trading, Joseon discouraged commerce and considered merchants as lowly. What a way to ruin your economy..

4. Because of Sadeh(idea of China as big brother), Joseon effectively ended the official trade partnership with the rest of the world, therefore earning the nickname "Hermit Kingdom". Where as Koryo had trading relationship with China, Japan, India, Vietnam, Arabia, Persia and many other nations, Joseon only dealt with China and Japan. Why? China told Joseon to do so, and you do what your big brother tell you to do!

5. So why did China make Joseon to do that? Well... Korea always posed a threat to northern China, so it was important for China to break Korea's hands and knees when Yi Sungye volunteered to pledge loyalty to China. There were three ways to weaken Korea's strength and China did it all.. First, isolate Korea: less nations to trade with = little econmy. Second, request payments for "protection" = little economy. Third, request thousands of horses and restrict gun powders = little cavarly and weak infantry.

These are a few of many negative changes that were made during the change over from Koryo to Joseon. I can't say that there weren't any good changes (like advances in litrature), but those are very minor compared to major negatives that were accumulated over time and ultimately caused Korea's downfall in the 20th century.

Sorry for being Off-Topic here, but I need to respond to Kemamusa's interesting perspective on Korean history.

I would not necesarily think the Joseon Dynasty was a decline in Korean history. The Joseon Dynasty was considered by many to be the "Age of Enlightment" in Korean history. The Joseon Dynasty produced so many great things like moveable type, the Hangul script, great leaders like King Sejong and Admiral Yi to name a few. If the Joseon Dynasty was never founded, would any of these things happen? I doubt it. The problem with the "what ifs" history is that you do not know if it is going to better than the real history. Besides, it is doubtful that General Yi Song Gye would have suceeded in taking back the land from China. At the time, Ming China had a much more powerful army and General Yi was no fool. He knew it was better to side with the ascendant power, Ming rather than make war with it. It is true that Korea became militarily weak during the Joseon Dynasty but the tradeoff is that it also was the period that was remembered for its incredible cultural acheivements.

[iapdog3000 Liao Jin Zhao]

I never saw that series Tears of the Dragon. I wish they re-aired that series after that Yi Sun-Shin (Lee Soon-Shin) saga is over.