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Post by MTR on Mar 28, 2013 20:09:30 GMT -5
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Post by MTR on Mar 28, 2013 20:49:00 GMT -5
Could not find anything about Cho Soyong in English ,Horse Doctor starts at the same time period that this concludes .
According to Wiki The Crown Prince was murdered for trying to bring Western Science and Christianity to Joseon .
Chono /Slave Hunters covers the attempt to save the son of the Crown Prince though its a fictional story .
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shiku
Junior Addict
Posts: 159
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Post by shiku on Mar 29, 2013 14:09:31 GMT -5
I read a very interesting commentary on Mr. X's website where he goes into detail how Kwangae being deposed may have led to the Manchurian invasion since they stopped using his 'wait and see' approach and decided to fully embrace the Ming Empire. This made them to be enemies of the Jurchen/Manchuria and were invaded by them. You should read it as it is very interesting. vaultofdoom.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/visual-commentary-%EA%B6%81%EC%A4%91%EC%9E%94%ED%98%B9%EC%82%AC-%EA%BD%83%EB%93%A4%EC%9D%98-%EC%A0%84%EC%9F%81-war-of-flowers-part-1/#more-4021Here are several paragraphs from his article, Picture Joseon licking its wounds after the long and exhausting Imjin War with the Wa (while subtly refurbishing its army), and Jurchen chieftain extraordinaire Nurhachi capturing former Ming territories all over Manchuria like it was nobody’s business. King Gwanghae of Joseon (Lee Byung-Heon in that film! With Han Hyo-Joo) pulls off a clever balancing act between maintaining the existing close ties between Joseon and the downtrodden Ming and at the same time appearing cordial to the new rising Jurchen star. This includes pretending to send copious reinforcements (13,000 men strong) in aid to the Ming for the crucial Battle of Sarhu in 1619, and then pulling the plug at the last, crucial moment. At least for what concerns battle tactics, as thousands of men needlessly lost their lives anyway. The men, led by general Kang Hong-Rip, would join the mobile corps unit led by Qiao Yiqi, part of the Right Wing East Route Force contingent of 50,000 men in total. But what happened is that in the meantime Gwanghae had sent a secret missive to General Kang to wait out and see who was winning the battle, to then stick to the winning side. Sure enough, Kang’s troops were purposely ineffective in the battle and a remaining contingent of 5,000 men would be surrounded by Jurchen forces and pretty much forced to surrender against their will (wink wink) – anyone who’s ever been in Manchuria around winter knows how cold it can get, and if you add the fact that they’d been starving for two days, you can get the picture. The maneuver worked splendidly, because while the Ming pretty much started walking towards Sunset Boulevard after that momentous battle, Joseon was spared from the ravaging fury of Nurhachi’s Jurchen troops. The barbarians fell for it. Har Har. What happened a few years later would define the next few decades of Joseon history – and sure enough, you can blame a few dozen self-serving politicians and their conniving mustaches for the trouble. Nurhachi’s son Hong Taiji had always taken a hostile approach towards Joseon, but Gwanghae’s brilliantly duplicitous diplomacy made sure he would see no immediate threat coming from the Land of the Morning Calm for quite a while. This all changed in 1622, when Joseon let illustrious and brilliant Ming general Mao Wenlong stay in Gado Island, North Pyeongan province, to plot the Ming’s plans to reconquer their lost territories in Liaodong (Manchuria), which would inevitably irk the Jurchen. What’s even worse, in 1623 Gwanghae was deposed by the Westerners faction in the infamous Injo Restoration (something we’ll talk about a little later), which turned Gwanghae’s wait-and-see diplomacy into a full-fledged love letter to the Ming – not surprisingly making the Jurchen a little angsty. Not a year had passed, and one of the aforementioned old curs decided he wasn’t happy with the way the “spoils of war” from the Injo Restoration had been distributed, and he had to stage an uprising. This was Lee Gwal’s Revolt, the first in Joseon history to actually force a king (in this case, Injo, in the first of many embarrassments to come) to find refuge outside the capital. The uprising itself was just a cliff note in the long history of Joseon upheavals, but a little detail right at the end wasn’t: Han Yoon, the son of one of Lee Gwal’s partners in crime, fled into Jurchen territory. Once there, he had the courtesy to tell the barbarians that King Gwanghae had been illegitimately deposed, that Joseon’s army wasn’t worth a lick and that Mao Wenlong’s men weren’t any better, so this gave Hong Taiji, Nurhachi and their men the just cause to invade Joseon. If you add the fact that Nurhachi would be killed in battle in 1626, the Jurchen and their new leader Hong Taiji had to act fast. 1627 came, the Jeongmyo year in our good old Chinese sexagenary nomenclature. It was time for a “barbarian invasion.” By January 14 of 1627, Hong Taiji had already sent 30,000 troops to “aid King Gwanghae.” They quickly manhandled Mao Wenlong in Gado Island, reached Euiju a couple of days later, and were already knocking at Pyeongyang’s gates by the 24th. King Injo and his retinue quickly fled to Ganghwa Island, while his son (Crown Prince Sohyeon) would head to Jeonju. The invasion was over only days after it began, and while the usual old farts were discussing what to do next in Ganghwa, the Jurchen sued for peace – claiming that their intent was only that of striking the Ming, and that Joseon wasn’t their target. This convinced Joseon’s leadership in Ganghwa Island to adopt a pacific stance. The agreement mandated that both armies would retreat and agree not to pass the Amnok River, and that Joseon could continue with its policy of not betraying the Ming, so it might have looked very convenient on paper. But seeing as thousands of Jurchen and Mongol men were stationed in Euiju and along the Jin river, and that through ad-hoc trade posts around the frontier the Jurchen could gain access to all sorts of materials, they had pretty much achieved their goal with little effort. In 1635, Hong Taiji officially changed the name of his people from Jurchen to Manchu. The Later Jin dynasty he had led since 1626 was renamed as well. Enter the Qing. It was a clear sign that things would escalate in the area, and that the Manchu would fight for the mandate of heaven. As Joseon had obtained the right to continue their ties with the Ming in the past agreement and the Qing had just launched a full-on attack on them, Joseon was caught in the crossfire, becoming the recipient of a huge 100,000 men expedition which was launched on December 1636. This is exactly where the drama begins, outside the gates of 남한산성 (Mount Namhan Fortress), where Injo and his court had fled ever since the invasion. It was January 30 of 1637, the 15th year of King Injo’s reign. In the biting cold and decimated by days without any rations, Injo was on his way out of that fortress to do something that would change his rule forever, and define his legacy. And all because those old men wanted to keep calling their Manchurian neighbors on their barbaric ways. |
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Post by MTR on Mar 30, 2013 1:31:35 GMT -5
Brilliant Shiku !,it amazes me that Gwanghae is labeled as a tyrant ,yes he killed his problematic older brother who had been captured by the Japanese while Gwanghae stood his ground and fought unlike his father and the "court on the run " . His mistress Kim Gae Hee (also his fathers amour which was a massive no no )another Joseon dynasty femme fatale had his younger half brother" smoked to death " inside his house . But all in all he was a decent King ,he was farsighted enough to figure out that Qing were the rising power and maintained a skillful balancing act to preserve the Kingdom .
The Western party hated him as did the Queen dowager even prior to smoking her kid ,she accused him of usurping the throne ,he was hated by the Western party as he was a concubines son and his appeasing Qing was the last straw and was actually the real reason he was deposed .
By contrast to the very competent Gwanghae Injo was a disaster and another "King on the run " and plunged the country into despair ,aside from the Qing Invasions his reign was plagued be rebellions ,i never understand why history is kind to this guy (pro Ming Confucian scholars ) as he was probably the most incompetent of all the Joseon Dynasty Kings save the last two ,The Western party certainly made a blunder in removing Gwanghae and the country paid for it .
Interesting in Li Gwai's revolt after being one of the major players in the Injo Coup he was passed over in the rewards department and sent to Manchuria along with his squad of 300 Samurai who had switched sides during the Imjin War and this was the major reason for his rebellion .
The Crown Prince Soyeon who was sent as a hostage to Qing upon his return fell out with his father because he wanted to bring western science ,medicine and Christianity to Joseon ,prior to getting on dads bad side he had prevented yet another invasion of Joseon ,he was a competent Prince and smarter than his father as such it was probably jealousy that drove Injo to have him murdered either by poisoning or beaten to death ,not content with killing his more talented son he had his innocent daughter in law charged with treason and given the old cup of poison .
I do not know how influential Cho Soyong was as i cannot find anything about her in English ,though her paramour would be hard to beat .Even Yonsan was a better ruler than this guy despite his penchant for bumping off court officials he was popular with the common people .
When Joseon was invaded by Qing The Tokugawa Shogunate eager to do some damage control after Hideyoshi's invasions offered to send assistance in the form of weapons and troops (of course being careful not to offer and clans that fought in the Imjin War but clans loyal to The Tokugawa ) but considering that the Samurai were the elite fighters in East Asia and would have been a great help Injo fearing for his popularity turned the offer down .
Other dramas that take place during the reign of this trainwreck of a King .
HORSE DOCTOR
CHUNO /SLAVE HUNTERS .
JANG GIL SANG
KINGS WOMAN 2002 Actually about Gwanghae but Injo makes an appearance .
DAEMANG /GREAT AMBITION 2003 Aside from making superstars of Song Yeh Jin ,Lee Yo Won and Jang Hyuk its a fictional story but the King is based on Injo and Sejo crossed .
There are also a bunch of ghost films that seem to be set during his reign proving that even the undead could not stand him .
Not sure but i think Cruel Palace is a remake ,Truth will clarify and please correct any errors Truth as we are but your students ,and hats off to Shiku for a great overview of this clods reign .
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Post by MTR on Mar 31, 2013 21:25:19 GMT -5
First Episode was really good ,watched it on Dramafever ,do not want to give away spoilers but it is well worth watching .
If i have a minor gripe considering the title character Cho Soyoung is meant to be this femme fatale i felt they could have chosen a better actress ,Its not so much a looks issue but she seemed more suited to romantic comedies .
But early days she has time to grow into the role .
According to her bio and resume Kim Hyun Joo is famous for bubbly happy roles !!!.
Anyway give her a chance i guess .
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Post by Knov1 on Mar 31, 2013 22:05:59 GMT -5
Spoilers aren't an issue in Other Shows. I watched the first 2 episodes. Off to good start. Unlikely to continue watching though due to time constraints.
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Post by sageuk on Mar 31, 2013 23:59:17 GMT -5
So far I like the portrayal of Injo. The other kdramas showed him as just a plain old bad guy, but here, he's a sympathetic and very pitiful man who just happened to be a bad ruler. Not sure how accurate that is but his legacy is that of a inept king, and legacy never remembers a person
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Post by MTR on Apr 1, 2013 21:25:19 GMT -5
I think this is more accurate in that he was not a bad guy just weak ,though it was hilarious when he went off on that General for not helping him with the 30.000 troops and exiling him to the Island .
For a cable drama nothing really in here that we have not seen on KBS or MBC .
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Post by sageuk on Apr 1, 2013 23:36:45 GMT -5
Yeah. The moment I heard about the premise I instnatly thought "Oh gee another evil concubine drama, like we haven't seen that before"
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Post by MTR on Apr 1, 2013 23:55:00 GMT -5
I think and hope this may have more going for it than the usual evil concubine story ,considering this one hardly gets a mention historically ,a big part should be the power struggle between the weak father and his two sons as well as Qing .
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Post by MTR on Apr 4, 2013 16:15:22 GMT -5
Eps 3 and 4 are up on Fever .
Hope people will start watching this ,its really good .
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Post by sageuk on Apr 24, 2013 17:31:46 GMT -5
Uhhh, DYC? You said the lead actress is in more romantic comedies,right?
She's actually intimidating me.
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Post by MTR on Apr 25, 2013 16:23:14 GMT -5
She actually is the worst thing in this ,she cannot convey the femme fatale at all ,you can tell she is out of her depth she acts like this is a Romantic Comedy .
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Post by sageuk on Apr 25, 2013 17:43:28 GMT -5
While I don't entirely agree with you regarding the lead, I will admit that I don't really buy that a person would be attracted to her, not to mention you can tell she's trying a little too hard to play innocent.
The parts where she shines to me however, is when she talks about murdering someone while in that bubbly personality. That bubbliness mixed with bloodlust makes things a little more creepier to me, not to mention she's also young.
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Post by MTR on Apr 25, 2013 18:51:09 GMT -5
That is a very good observation actually ,im sure we will see her change and grow over the duration .
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