Post by galacticchick on Oct 15, 2003 9:52:14 GMT -5
Was that a plot twist or what???
People not up to episode #145...unless you like spoilers, you'd better leave this thread now. * * * * * * * * Sangmin has CANCER!!!!! Not only that, but he's in the last stage. I totally did not see that coming, unfortunately I had to find out before the proper time as I stumbled onto an unmarked spoiler.
I have a couple of questions though, I don't know anyone that's had liver cancer, but could you actually advance so far into the disease and not even feel a change in your body? That seems kind of unbelieveable to me.
It seems like he is still set on trying to make Jimin his son though. I was actually hoping he'd let matters be. He's a really selfish, dispicable guy if he tells Jimin he's his father, knowing that his days on this earth are numbered.
Anybody feel sorry for him? Anybody glad this happpened? I wonder if Minjoo will take him back or if SM will even tell her about his disease? So many questions, so little episodes left.
The thing that gets me is this surgery SM is supposed to have. Now, I thought that when you are in end stage, surgery is too big of a risk because opening up the body will cause the cancer to spread (such was the case with my grandma). I'm really irked that it was cancer, too. It's always cancer in Korean dramas. And it's always cured by a magic surgery. (think On the Green Prarie.) I'm sure surgery is just for dramatic effect, but it is too unbelievable. Well, I know that guilt-induced cancer is also a big thing in K dramas, like Moon Hee's mom in To Be With You (was it the pearl that made her sick, or the guilt of stealing it?) So maybe its a karma thing? But Korean writers must know about chemotherapy.
Cinnamoroll:long eared wonder pup my new site: my Kawaii
No, no surgery, Jenny! In his flashback to the doctor's words, SM recalled the doctor saying the cancer had advanced too far for surgery or liver transplant.
Just to interject here a moment...organ transplant is NEVER an option in the case of cancer, for 2 reasons. One is, too much likelihood of spread to other organs or the lymphatic system to make transplant an effective treatment (even more so when "competition" for the scarce resource of available organs is so intense). The other reason is immunosuppression. If a person gets an organ transplant, he has to go on very high doses of immunosuppression to prevent rejection. If he's undergoing chemo and radiation therapy at the same time, which he would have to do in order to do everything possible to beat the cancer, his immune system would be greatly compromised anyway. The two together, and he'd be far too vulnerable to any infection (viral or bacterial) that comes along.
I too was very surprised by the cancer diagnosis. I thought for sure we would find out SM had damaged his liver by excessive alcohol consumption/abuse. What cancer is it? Liver cancer? I'm wondering if that's it because the doctor mentioned liver transplant being out and there was a picture of the liver on the book SM was looking at.
Severe alcohol abuse can cause liver cancer...but only after years of heavy drinking, and usually as a result of cirrhosis that's gone on for a long period. I don't really understand the purpose of making him have cancer when early stage cirrhosis makes more sense, except that it's more dramatic to have him stricken w/ a terminal illness advanced enough to leave him little time in this life. And like his doctor told him, anyone is at risk for cancer.
As to whether it's likely end-stage cancer would turn up in someone w/ no symptoms until only recently, I'd say cancer is one of those diseases that can manifest itself a lot of different ways. It's more common that people will have symptoms of pain or illness and get it checked out at a point before the cancer has spread to late-stage. But I've heard of and known people who went in for symptoms like that only to find a cancer that has spread to the point that there's little to do for it. Sometimes even tumors are detected in a routine physical or diagnostic test for something else when the patient is feeling pretty much ok and it's a cancer that's too advanced to treat. It does happen. But in the case of liver cancer, I would think there would be warning signs of various sorts that would send a person to his doctor before it was as advanced as SM's seems to be. Also, I would think the doctor would have to do a liver biopsy before he could say w/ certainty exactly what's going on.
It's like the thing w/ MJ's uterine tumor...it wasn't exactly logical and medically accurate...but it wasn't so far outside the realm of plausibility as to be ludicrous.
As to the question of what he'll do about Ji-min...I say give him a little time to process things, GC. He's just been hit w/ a bomb shell that's turned his whole world up side down. I'm sure he's in shock right now and needs time to sort things out. I kept thinking something would come along to cause an epiphany that would make him change his ways, though I admit I hadn't counted on a terminal illness.
Btw...I wondered what the doctor meant by "We'll find a way" after saying it's too late for surgery to do any good. We'll find a way for what? The prognosis sounds about as bleak to me as anything could be.
Thanks, Jade. I found the surgery option very hard to swallow! As for organ transplants, I know all too well how strong immunosuppression drugs can be. My mom donated a kidney to my dad this June, and he had to wear a surgeon's mask in public for a while to protect him from germs(everyone thought he had SARS ) Chemotherapy defenitely isn't an option in that case. And when my grandma was diagnosed with end stage lung cancer, I believe the only way it was discovered was through the symptoms, because her doctor kept interpreting the spot on her lung x ray as pnemonia scarring. I don't know how Sang Min couldn't feel anything, or how such a young man could do that much damage in such a short time. That's where my karma theory comes in. If 5 years of binge drinking could do that much damage, poor Yoon Joon should get to his gastroenterologist immediately!
Cinnamoroll:long eared wonder pup my new site: my Kawaii
Post by HumbleStudent on Oct 15, 2003 12:08:27 GMT -5
GC: I don't think you're right that "he is still set on trying to make Ji-Min his son." Remember, when he was talking with YJ, he said that as far as he was concerned he was OK with meeting JM in his capacity as YJ's friend, and putting the rest off until JM is seven - when, as SM knew, he probably won't be around. But Woon-Kyu is, as always, the troublesome element. Neither SM nor anyone else has had any success in controlling him.
LOL Jenny about YJ getting into his GI doctor pronto!
And it hasn't been anything close to 5 years binge drinking for SM. We've only seen him hit the sauce heavily twice...both times when his life was on the skids because of MJ. It's true he's been boozing it up really heavy this time around, but certainly not enough to destroy his liver to the point of inducing cancer.
I'm not sure if the writer is trying to suggest that SM's alcohol abuse of a few weeks brought on cancer, the way MJ's bender seemed to bring on her miscarriage and possibly her uterine tumor. If so, it's not the best writing, because it just doesn't happen that way.
More likely, the cancer was completely separate. Perhaps his heavy drinking of late aggravated the condition. But as his doctor said, anyone is at risk for cancer. Look at Lance Armstrong, an athlete in prime condition, supposedly not drinking or smoking, as he was in intensive training and he was hit w/ cancer that spread pretty badly. Probably his excellent shape and strength helped him beat it where it would otherwise have killed the average person similarly stricken. But yes, anyone can develop cancer...even young, healthy people taking good care of themselves.
Btw, Jenny...how is your father doing? And your mother? My best wishes to your whole family.
Thanks for asking about my folks, Jade! Both donor and recipient are doing great! I can't emphasize enough how this transplant has changed my dad's quality of life. Organ donation, both living and cadaveric, is such a gift not only to the recipient but to the whole family. I'm so happy to have my daddy back! Oops, I'm afraid I'm a bit off the subject. Again, thank you for your best wishes.
P.S. I never thought about Lance Armstrong, good point. I guess I automatically figured Sang Min's behavior contributed to his health.
Post by galacticchick on Oct 15, 2003 15:42:05 GMT -5
GC: I don't think you're right that "he is still set on trying to make Ji-Min his son." quote]
You quoted me wrong, I didn't make a matter-of-fact kind of statement, "Sang-min is trying to make Jimin his son." I wrote it as a "I wonder if" kind of way.
Besides, he didn't say he'd always meet Jimin under the pretense of being YJ's friend, he said he'd go along w/it until his parents broke him the news. And he said he'd think about waiting till he's 7 to tell him he's his father. Of course we know that if his illness has progressed that far, he probably doesn't have time to fulfill that promise.
Grandparents from WML: "Are my words dog's nose to you?"
"So you think I should go on meeting him as your friend for now? Even if I would go along w/ that, my father wouldn't."
It sounded as if he was saying, "Let's say I agree to remain "your friend" to JM for the time being...still, there's no way I can keep my father from trying to see him."
I didn't hear a tacit agreement from SM that he is willing to go along w/ what YJ proposes. But his point is, even if he does, he knows he can't control his father, who will never be persuaded to back off wanting to see JM and have JM know WK is his grandfather.
Of course, we all know everything is up in the air right now for SM. He has to think about dropping everything and going into the hospital for extensive medical treatment which probably won't do much good...or growing sicker every day at home, waiting to die in a few months or so. Certainly this is not the best time to be running down to city hall and filing paternity claims and working out visitation rights.
Let's give him a few days and see what he does. There was a preview scene the other night that looked like he was saying something to JY at a cafe that surprised her in a pleasant way. I'm hoping maybe he's telling her he's backing off for now.
Speaking of visitation rights, is it ok if I use this thread to stick in a complaint about Min-joo? Could you believe her nerve yesterday when she told SM that although she doesn't want him visiting Yuna "too often" she was "angry" when she was "forced" to call him because Yuna threw a tantrum and SM didn't come running. Is she a piece of work or what?
Even in divorce, she really has ths view of things that she's the puppet master and SM is her puppet on a string. She jerks his string and he has to dance the way she makes him. How dare he "decline" her command to visit his own child the day after telling him "Oh she'll forget all about seeing you by tomorrow!" Yeah, she really forgot, didn't she? That poor child is going to cry herself to death.
Have I mentioned lately how much I hate selfish Min-joo? Sang-min has been a heel, yes...but if I had the choice, I'd rather see the miserable MJ the one stricken w/ terminal cancer.
Min-joo will get her comeuppence when Yuna becomes a teenager. Yuna will have had such a twisted childhood by then she'll be totally out of contol. And she'll have the example of her mother, who told HER step-mother, "You know I never listen to you", right in front of Yuna.