chuck
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Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Oct 8, 2009 0:04:51 GMT -5
I'm through episode 39 now. Something that has me puzzled is how Yushin supposedly humbled himself and got Mishil to save him, and make him the PungWolJu (or whatever that title is)---and all he had to do was marry some relative of Mishil? Because ever since then, he has quite openly still been completely aligned with Deokman.
I loved Deokman's question/accusation to Mishil: why hasn't Shilla advanced since Mishil had control? Because she rules by fear, and no one has any incentive to produce under a dictator. Excellent, excellent. And Mishil knows that it is true.
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Oct 8, 2009 21:33:35 GMT -5
Episode 40. Chinchilla is revealed as a villain. The mask came off when he was conspiring with the merchant who assassinated Munno, and he told him that if Bidam doesn't become one of his people, he will have to be killed. So even if he didn't have Munno killed, being willing to have Bidam killed is no different. He's evil.
Speaking of Bidam, he seems to be sidling up to Deokman a lot lately. Is he falling in love, or just lusting for power?
And Mishil was clearly shocked by Chinchilla's calling the bone ranking system vulgar and barbaric. She must be realizing she may have created a monster.
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Post by consoleman on Oct 9, 2009 2:47:00 GMT -5
consoleman, you changed the last sentence from the post at The China History Forum. It reads, "The last major Seonggol ruler of Shilla was "Queen Seondeok". Only those holding sacred bone rank were permitted to assume the throne. This led to the crowning of Queen Seondeok in 632 and Queen Jindeok in 647, because no males of the sacred bone rank were available. This situation may have led to its subsequent abolition. According to the encyclopedia, Kim Chunchu ascended the throne as a Jinggol. Kim Chunchu was born with the rank of seonggol (sacred blood or bone). His father was Kim Youngchun (the son of King Jinji). BUT When King Jinji was overthrown, all royalty from his line were deemed unfit to rule over the kingdom. This fate was brought down upon Kim Youngchun and Kim Chunchu. Kim Youngchun was one of the most powerful people in the government. However, against Kim Bekban, the younger brother of the king at this time, Kim Youngchun lost all of his power. In order to survive, he had to become a jinggol, the rank that was right below seonggol. Therefore, he lost his chance of becoming the king, and so did his child, Kim Chunchu. However, when all the Seonggols were dead, somebody with the royal blood in the Jinggol rank had to succeed the throne. The people in the government wanted Kim Alcheon to succeed the throne. His dad was a seonggol, who married a jinggol wife so that his son would not be a seonggol and suffer from the fight for the throne. However, Kim Yushin supported Kim Chunchu, and Kim Alcheon refused the throne and supported Kim Chunchu. As a result, Chunchu (King Taejong Muyeol) took the throne in 654. (After Queen Seondeok's cousin Queen Jindeok, who ruled from 647- 654) Kim Yushin was the son of General Kim Seohyeon and Lady Manmyeong, who was a daughter of King Jinheung. Yushin was the great-grandchild of King Guhyeong of Gaya (Kaya) the last ruler of the Gaya state. King Guhyeong surrendered to the Shilla forces and brought his family and his treasures to Shilla. He was received with ceremony and his family were admitted to the second-highest rank of the Shilla bone rank system, the "true bone." (jinggol) Bidam wouldn't be seonggol since his mother is Mishil (a concubine). Yes, I've changed because I've learn that Kim Chun-chu was son of both royal blood, making him the very last of Seongol. I'm not too sure about why other source pointed him as Jingol. Jingol usually only half royal blood of one of Kyongju clan of Park, Seok & Kim.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 9, 2009 13:30:27 GMT -5
Yes, I've changed because I've learn that Kim Chun-chu was son of both royal blood, making him the very last of Seongol. I'm not too sure about why other source pointed him as Jingol. Jingol usually only half royal blood of one of Kyongju clan of Park, Seok & Kim. Actually I read the same information from numerous sources. The subject of him being a Jinggol was just brought up in Queen Seondeok episode 40. The explanation was exactly what I had read. He was demoted in rank.
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Post by pilseung on Oct 9, 2009 15:27:52 GMT -5
This whole drama has distorted facts.It doesn't bother me because it makes the story interesting.
Some stuff that is different,for example,that Deokman was the eldest of three daughters!In this drama,wasn't she the younger twin?Another thing is that Yusin was a childhood friend of Chunchu's but in this story,they seem to not know each other so informally.They even supposedly became in-laws when Chunchu married Yusin's sister.I can't remember Yusin's sister in the drama so far.Maybe she'll show up later?Deokman was wise and smart but apparently,she had some uncanny abilities.Like some sixth sense for predicting and being well-prepared for significant events in the future.For example,she even predicted correctly to the day and hour,her actual death!!Wierd!!True?Who knows!?
Yusin is credited with uniting the three kingdoms together with Chunchu.So I guess Deokman only got the ball rolling without seeing it out.Munno did guess correctly that Yusin was the legitimate owner of the 3 kingdoms book!!
Anyway,Bidam's suppose to eventually lead a revolt against Deokman.It seems such a pity;they seem to have great chemistry between them.Now this will be an interesting twist to look forward to.
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Post by mugwump on Oct 9, 2009 16:22:14 GMT -5
Yes, I also have been puzzled about the whole point of Yushin going over to Mishil. It was initially portrayed like the end of the world was coming and Deokman would never see him again. But now it's business as usual with Yushin still (apparently) serving Deokman's interests. And she continues to include him in her strategy sessions.
The only explanation I can think of is that Mishil has the hook in him and is reeling him in slowly, and planning for the long term. One of her modes of operation is to buy people off and get them so much in debt to her that when she needs a "favor" from them, they can't refuse. Most of the country is in her pocket. We see how she is sending gifts to Archeon's father already, just in case Archeon is brought up as a possible husband for Deokman. Besides marrying Yushin to her granddaughter, she has just offered him a higher position in the military. And remember how, when Munno came back, she immediately reminded him of all the favors she had done for him in the past (so he would continue to feel indebted to her). So she is bound to ask Yushin to do a "favor" for her eventually. The question is, how will he respond? Will he stay bought?
Chinchilla - finally revealed? Mishil was sure surprised at his unscripted speech at the end of Ep 40. But she's been caught by surprise a lot lately. I especially loved the little smile Deokman gave Mishil after she stated 1) she wasn't going to marry; 2) she was going to be the next king. Even Mishil, with all her ambition for power, apparently never suspected that Deokman was gunning for the throne.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 9, 2009 20:58:35 GMT -5
I agree pilseung. I'm loving it no matter what though. ;D I doubt we'll ever see the other sister, Seonhwa. Deokman grew up in the palace not Sui, but I did enjoy her adventures in the beginning. It's said that when Queen Maya didn't bear any sons, the King sent her away to a Buddhist convent in the mountains to become a nun. The king remarried a woman named Seungman in the hopes of fathering a male heir, but she too was unable to bear the king any sons. Kim Chunchu was Yushin's blood-brother and closest friend. The way he's portrayed in the drama makes him all the more mysterious and interesting I guess. Chunchu did marry Yushin's sister although he was already married and had children. Chunchu isn't married yet in the show and this marriage would be later. The drama got extended 12 more episodes but I'd think it would end before that. Kim Chunchu's rise to power as a Jinngol changed Shilla's age-old tradition of selecting a successor to the throne so that only one royal lineage would be the source of ruling power in the country. Chunchu had been a diplomat responsible for foreign relations and often went to China, Goguryeo and (Wa) Japan. Being whisked away to Sui to protect him from Mishil sounds more exciting though. Yushin supported Queen Seondeok when Bidam tried to usurp the throne by raising a revolt. She was nearly removed from power by rebels called the "True Bone" Shilla, who refused to accept any but male rulers. Kim Yushin heard of the plot and managed to defeat the rebels before any harm could be done. I'm not looking forward to that. I like Bidam being one of the good guys. (most of the time) I would say the one about her death was definitely legend. She was known for her intelligence, foresight and wit. She was very interested in astronomy from a young age and apparently did make the right calculations for a solar eclipse using the Chinese calendar brought by an ambassador and astronomer from China. mugwump, I think Yushin was backed into a corner and in order to protect his people, he had to marry into Mishil's family. She believes he's not a problem anymore and especially now that Yushin's wife is pregnant. Yushin already made it known that the only way Mishil could have him was when he was dead. It's all to strengthen and solidify her power. She already has control over most of the nobles and a large number of hwarang. Yushin will always be by Deokman's side. That's how it seems to me anyway.
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Oct 9, 2009 23:23:39 GMT -5
The drama got extended 12 more episodes but I'd think it would end before that. Are you saying Queen Seonduk was originally to be 38 episodes, or will now be 62 episodes?
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 10, 2009 11:47:43 GMT -5
Chuck, it's now 62 episodes. This is one time I'm glad a drama got extended. I don't want it to be over in 22 episodes.
We finally see Chunchu's true intentions. The act is over. Bidam spilled the beans a bit there in the library with Mishil.
The King better act quickly on the succession issue. At one point he looked like he had chest pains.
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Post by mugwump on Oct 11, 2009 15:23:22 GMT -5
I doubt we'll ever see the other sister, Seonhwa. For a (highly fictionalized) account of the life of the third princess Seonhwa, I recommend tuning in to "Ballad of Seodong". It takes place in approximately the same time frame as Queen Seonduk and has some interesting parallels - the hero is the son of the (extremely wimpy) king of Baekje, is hidden and finds out who he is slowly, is reunited with his older brother only to be parted from him too soon, must fight to prove his worthiness to become the next king. And the nobles are all worthless greedy scum. A thoroughly enjoyable albeit fluffy historical. The Shillans are the bad guys in this one, particularly Cheongmyung, and the hero's nemesis is a Hwarang.
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Post by MTR on Oct 11, 2009 17:11:55 GMT -5
Seodonyeo or Seo Dong Folk Song are other titles its known by ,this is very high on my 'to see list "
Seon Deok has been extended to 80 episodes last i heard and may even go longer considering its gianormous ratings . MBC have already rushed out a DVD box set of the first few episodes ,but its Region 3 only and like "Yi San "the episodes are split into 40 Min Episodes as such Ep 1 becomes 1 and 2 ,that way they can get more mileage out of it . it probably would have made more sense to make it an all Region Box set like "Yi San" was at least from the financial aspect ,speaking off its expensive as hell too ,like 125 bucks or in that range .
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chuck
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Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Oct 11, 2009 20:11:05 GMT -5
Seodonyeo or Seo Dong Folk Song are other titles its known by ,this is very high on my 'to see list " Seon Deok has been extended to 80 episodes last i heard and may even go longer considering its gianormous ratings . MBC have already rushed out a DVD box set of the first few episodes ,but its Region 3 only and like "Yi San "the episodes are split into 40 Min Episodes as such Ep 1 becomes 1 and 2 ,that way they can get more mileage out of it . it probably would have made more sense to make it an all Region Box set like "Yi San" was at least from the financial aspect ,speaking off its expensive as hell too ,like 125 bucks or in that range . I think your information is out of date. The box set www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002PFER0C/ref=ox_ya_oh_product being sold on Amazon is Region 1, and has 20 episodes on 7 dvd's, so it sounds like the normal 3 episodes per disc. And it's $49.50. So I'm wondering if you are right about it being 80 episodes, too.
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Oct 11, 2009 20:18:23 GMT -5
I doubt we'll ever see the other sister, Seonhwa. For a (highly fictionalized) account of the life of the third princess Seonhwa, I recommend tuning in to "Ballad of Seodong". It takes place in approximately the same time frame as Queen Seonduk and has some interesting parallels - the hero is the son of the (extremely wimpy) king of Baekje, is hidden and finds out who he is slowly, is reunited with his older brother only to be parted from him too soon, must fight to prove his worthiness to become the next king. And the nobles are all worthless greedy scum. A thoroughly enjoyable albeit fluffy historical. The Shillans are the bad guys in this one, particularly Cheongmyung, and the hero's nemesis is a Hwarang. Sodongyo is the next drama on my list. Not because it is from the same time period, but because it is by the same author, Kim Yeong Hyeon. It is also produced by the man who produced Dae Jang Geum, Lee Byung Hun. Hard to believe Cheongmyung would be evil in that one. Well, I guess they use their historical material like the Greek playwrights used their myths, molding them to fit the theme they are trying to dramatize. And that's an intelligent way to go.
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Post by pilseung on Oct 12, 2009 2:34:36 GMT -5
The King better act quickly on the succession issue. At one point he looked like he had chest pains. This is the type of monarch that caused the necessity for the birth of republics!Necessity is the mother of invention?WHATEVER. He sits on the fence so much,his BEHIND must hurt. Ballad of Seodong was good.I liked the way the action and romance was inter-spaced throughout.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 12, 2009 12:18:05 GMT -5
This is the type of monarch that caused the necessity for the birth of republics!Necessity is the mother of invention?WHATEVER. He sits on the fence so much,his BEHIND must hurt. Ballad of Seodong was good.I liked the way the action and romance was inter-spaced throughout. Good one pilseung. ;D I believe domyoungchun is referring to the DVD set sold at yesasia.com. The discs are region 3 only and have 22 episodes on 8 discs. The set sold on amazon.com, Region 1, says run time-23 minutes. If that's 23 minutes per episode, it's hacked to pieces. Back in August I read the drama was going to be extended to 62 episodes. If it got extended further, I'm thrilled. I will have to check out "Ballad of Seodong". Wow, the Princess is evil in that one. Interesting. Maybe that's closer to the truth, who knows.
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