|
Post by ajk on Mar 27, 2012 11:09:38 GMT -5
This is the historical spoiler thread for Queen Seonduk. A "historical spoiler" is a piece of factual information from a later date than the current episode's story date. So for instance, Episode 1 begins in the year 572, so any historical information from that date onwards is considered a historical spoiler until we view Episode 1.
All historical spoilers must—MUST—be posted here and nowhere else.
|
|
|
Post by sageuk on Mar 27, 2012 14:32:40 GMT -5
Queen Seondeok, the first ruling queen in Korean history. Granted there were dowagers who ruled through their sons, but this is the first official thing. During the Silla kingdom, the status of women was relatively high, didn't have as much restrictions in later dynasties like Joseon. It is believed that Seondeok's selection as her father's successor was justified by her displays of precocious intelligence when she was a princess, and the drama portrays her to be VERY intelligent, particularly in her younger years. One such story (both in Samguk Sagi and Samguk Yusa) recounts that her father received a box of peony seeds from the Emperor Taizong of Tang accompanied by a painting of what the flowers looked like. Looking at the picture, the young Seondeok remarked that while the flower was pretty it was a shame that it did not smell. "If it did, there would be butterflies and bees around the flower in the painting." Her observation about the peonies' lack of scent proved correct — just one of many illustrations of her intellect and hence of her ability to rule.
|
|
|
Post by MTR on Apr 1, 2012 14:22:32 GMT -5
One thing the drama never gets into is her patronage of science and technology she was one of the most far thinking rulers ,She herself was very much into Astronomy even built a famous tower and she was also big on divinity being schooled in Shamanistic beliefs . The drama only shows one aspect of her in that way i wish it was more balanced like Sejong .
Mishil strong evidence she never existed she is only in one book of the Shilla period by a dubious author ,She certainly if real was not the powerhouse depicted here rather she used her body to gain advantage .
|
|
|
Post by mugwump on Apr 1, 2012 16:11:46 GMT -5
Actually, the show does cover the astronomical tower, or at least the reason why it was built (although probably not the same as the real historical reason). In fact, the events leading up to the decision to build it are a very important part of the plot (pretty cool).
|
|
|
Post by MTR on Apr 2, 2012 0:18:21 GMT -5
You are right i forgot still she is most famous for her patronage of arts and sciences even though her reign was plagued by war and rebellion leading onto the Bidam rebellion in real life this happened in the reign of Jindeok the next queen ,seems the real Bidam was no fan of Seondeok and when her cousin Jindeok was crowned queen expecting more of the same he had enough and tried to oust her but his plot was betrayed and he was captured and executed . We know who will play Yushin in the upcoming KBS Drama but i am curious who will play Bidam should be a lot older than the one here .
|
|
|
Post by truth on Apr 6, 2012 20:05:06 GMT -5
QSD does get out of hand a lot actually.
1. Weird costumes : I don't understand why women are wearing Tang Chinese dresses. Silla only starts accepting Chinese culture during the reign of King Jindeok, who comes after Queen Seondeok. All of the male costumes are strange looking as well. Males are all dressed like power rangers
2. Ages
King Jinheung - died 39(Real) died 68ish(Drama)
Queen Seondeok(a.k.a Deokman) - should have been in her 50s when she became queen
Kim Choon Chu - Should be just 7 years old younger than Kim Yushin, not 17 years younger like this drama
Mishil - She mostly likely did not exist. However, she died when Kim Yushin was 16 according to Hwarang Segi, so she shouldn't even be in most of this drama if she was real. She was born in 540 in real history, but she's alive until the death of King Jinpyung in this drama. Jinpyung died in 632, so that should make her 92 even if she was alive until then. But she looks like she's still in her 40s when died in the drama.
Alcheon - He was a old man when Kim Yushin was young, but he looks like he is the same age as Kim Yushin in this drama. KBS's King Muyeol seems to have more proper portrayl of Alcheon, since Yim Heok(DJY's father in DJY) will be playing Alcheon.
3. Story
QSD was not abandoned as a baby nor did she crossdress, live in China, speak Greek and Chinese.
Kim Yushin didn't fall in love with QSD. His famous love story with a female astrologist is skipped in this drama. KBS King Muyeol will hopefully cover this.
There are more, but I can't think of all of them right now.
|
|
|
Post by MTR on Apr 7, 2012 2:58:09 GMT -5
Keep them coming Truth it seems this drama is much more fabricated than i thought .
I noticed in your other post in King Taejong Muyeol about Alcheon .
I am interested in the story of Yushin and the astrologist .
There is some film out about Roman Legions in Asia battling Chinese Warriors cant remember the name saw it in Blockbuster looks hokey .
As QSD is set well after the fall of Rome most traveling merchant guilds spoke Latin as it was the universal language in Europe ,Greek would only have been used by Greek Scholars so no chance she would have spoken Greek .As the Silk Road had yet to be built it is highly unlikely merchants from Europe and Middle East had made it to Asia at this point .
|
|
|
Post by truth on Apr 7, 2012 10:55:39 GMT -5
Keep them coming Truth it seems this drama is much more fabricated than i thought . I noticed in your other post in King Taejong Muyeol about Alcheon . I am interested in the story of Yushin and the astrologist . There is some film out about Roman Legions in Asia battling Chinese Warriors cant remember the name saw it in Blockbuster looks hokey . As QSD is set well after the fall of Rome most traveling merchant guilds spoke Latin as it was the universal language in Europe ,Greek would only have been used by Greek Scholars so no chance she would have spoken Greek .As the Silk Road had yet to be built it is highly unlikely merchants from Europe and Middle East had made it to Asia at this point . Alcheon was originally supposed to take over the throne after Queen Jindeok died, but he refused to take the throne and gave it to Choon Chu(Muyeol), a Kim from the Jingols instead. This is interesting since Alcheon was a So, not a Kim. The reason Seondeok and Jindeok were able to become rulers as women was because they were the last remaing Seongols and Silla needed someone else to take over the throne after Jindeok's death. It's interesting how someone from So family was considered as the successor before Jingol Kims, which is not too surprising since Silla was originally founded by the Park family. The love story between Kim Yushin and astrologist was covered in SBS Yeon Gaesomoon. Yushin's love with astrologist disturbed his Hwarang training, so he decided to stop seeing her. One day, he got on his horse after getting drunk and his horse took her straight to the astrologist. Yushin was unaware of this, so he got very upset that his pledge had been broken. He beheaded his horse as a punishment. Rome fell, but the Byzantine Empire, or the Eastern Roman Empire still existed during 600s. Deokman's white friend comes from the Byzantine Empire and the Byzantines spoke Greek if I remember correctly.
|
|
|
Post by MTR on Apr 7, 2012 14:08:28 GMT -5
You are right i forgot that the Greek Orthodox Church which split during the reign of Constantine because they could not agree on things like dates and who to venerate all spoke Greek and they held a heavy influence on the Byzantium Empire .
Poor horse . I am surprised Kim Yushin has not been given his own drama considering the character has appeared in many recent films and dramas .
|
|
|
Post by TheBo on Jul 26, 2012 12:29:33 GMT -5
Truth, you say this: "Silla only starts accepting Chinese culture during the reign of [King Jindeok, who comes after Queen Seondeok"
In your next post, you say, "Alcheon was originally supposed to take over the throne after Queen Jindeok died..."
Could you please clarify whether Jindeok was a man or a woman? Thanks! Presumably it was a female, from reading more of your second post, but I'd like to make sure.
All this stuff is super useful to me, btw. You guys are the greatest. I do have questions. Sageuk mentions the Samguk Sagi and Samguk Yusa, which presumably are historical records. When were these prepared? The titles mean what? Are they based on oral history, then written down much, much later (like the Christian "Old Testament" and other ancient histories and tales)? How trustworthy are these Samguk considered when it comes to Shilla history?
That's all I've got now.
|
|
|
Post by petitesweetie on Aug 2, 2012 12:57:22 GMT -5
I don't think is any kind of spoiler. But since were on the subject of weird costumes, there's an episode where Bidam is carrying a plaid backpack (if memory serves me right.) Made me think of Burberry. Also, the decore in the rooms doesn't seem right either.
|
|
|
Post by truth on Aug 6, 2012 21:11:41 GMT -5
Truth, you say this: "Silla only starts accepting Chinese culture during the reign of [King Jindeok, who comes after Queen Seondeok" In your next post, you say, "Alcheon was originally supposed to take over the throne after Queen Jindeok died..." Could you please clarify whether Jindeok was a man or a woman? Thanks! Presumably it was a female, from reading more of your second post, but I'd like to make sure. All this stuff is super useful to me, btw. You guys are the greatest. I do have questions. Sageuk mentions the Samguk Sagi and Samguk Yusa, which presumably are historical records. When were these prepared? The titles mean what? Are they based on oral history, then written down much, much later (like the Christian "Old Testament" and other ancient histories and tales)? How trustworthy are these Samguk considered when it comes to Shilla history? That's all I've got now. My mistake. It's Queen Jindeok, not King Jindeok. Samguk Sagi, or the History of Three Kingdoms, was written by Kim Bu Shik in 1145 during the rule of Emperor Injong in Koryo dynasty. It is based on older Korean texts that do not exist anymore and Chinese texts. Samguk Sagi is very trustworthy when it comes to Shilla history. Samguk Yusa, or Memorabilia of the Three Kingdoms, was written by Buddhist monk Iryeon in 1281 during the reign of King Choong Ryul in Koryo dynasty. It is a mixture of older Korean texts, oral history, legends, and folktales. Samguk Yusa is somewhat trustworthy, especially because it is one of the only two texts remaining about Three Kingdoms. Hwarang Segi, which has Mishil in it, is considered as a forged fake. Even a legend might symbolize the actual event that could have happened(Ex:King Jinji's ghost raping a peasant girl and giving birth to Bi Hyung).
|
|
|
Post by MTR on Aug 6, 2012 22:45:57 GMT -5
I do not think this is really a spoiler but upon becoming Queen Deokman was at least 50 but just based on reading articles (few and far between ) on Saguek History it would seem she has always been played by young pretty actresses of course that's to get people to watch in the first place . The latest Deokman is Park Jumi who will turn 40/41 this year so somewhat closer in age ,I once saw a pic from a 60's film she looked all of 25 tops .
Changing topics slightly do we know if she ever had any consorts ? .Somewhere i read that she came from a temple (i mean i know she was a Royal but may have been a shaman ) rather was sent to a temple at an early age than was taken out to rejoin the Royal Family ,I just cannot figure out why her family did not try and marry her off or did she even have lovers not to mention children ,Or as a priestess did she remain chaste ?and by the time she became Queen of course it was too late .
|
|
|
Post by truth on Aug 7, 2012 0:23:35 GMT -5
I do not think this is really a spoiler but upon becoming Queen Deokman was at least 50 but just based on reading articles (few and far between ) on Saguek History it would seem she has always been played by young pretty actresses of course that's to get people to watch in the first place . The latest Deokman is Park Jumi who will turn 40/41 this year so somewhat closer in age ,I once saw a pic from a 60's film she looked all of 25 tops . Changing topics slightly do we know if she ever had any consorts ? .Somewhere i read that she came from a temple (i mean i know she was a Royal but may have been a shaman ) rather was sent to a temple at an early age than was taken out to rejoin the Royal Family ,I just cannot figure out why her family did not try and marry her off or did she even have lovers not to mention children ,Or as a priestess did she remain chaste ?and by the time she became Queen of course it was too late . She was played by someone in her 50s in SBS Yeon Gaesomoon. She had 4 consorts according to Hwarang Segi, but that book isn't considered a legitimate history book. She didn't come from any temple. She was raised as a princess inside the palace her entire life. I guess female rulers were not allowed to marry at all. Both QSD and Jindeok were single. Queen Jinsung fell in love with her uncle, but they weren't married though.
|
|
HungV
Senior Addict
Posts: 258
|
Post by HungV on Aug 7, 2012 2:22:22 GMT -5
a long time i did not notice this thread which is really interesting one and Truth's doing his best at historical summaries.
it's strange to see the 2 queens weren't marry at all nor did they have any lovers, not to mention about having children.
|
|