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Post by puppy on Oct 12, 2009 19:13:20 GMT -5
The opiate thing has me totally confused. The Dowager Empress Liao sent an evil princess to drug the former emperor. That drug was probably opium, highly addictive. Now the evil princess is doing the same thing to the young emperor, why I'm not sure. Nor am I sure why Munwha is, to use her own words, "poisoning" the boy she raised. The concoction she served in tea seems to be a sort of LSD; the emperor hallucinates. But why does Munwha tell her servant, "Now at least, he'll be able to stand up to his mother."? What does the drugged tea have to do with him getting a backbone? Then, the IE, when she finds out her son is being fed something toxic, calls it a vegetable drink! Are Munwha and evil princess in cahoots or are they both drugging the emperor separately?
And why drug the poor guy anyway? If the emperor loses it the way his uncle, the former emperor did, that will make Hunae even more powerful since she'll have to step in and rule.
Totally confused.
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Post by mikey on Oct 13, 2009 9:10:56 GMT -5
Puppy, if it’s any consolation, I didn’t really get the purpose behind drugging the emperor, either. My understanding is that Munhwa and the Evil Queen are in cahoots . . . though I can’t, for the life of me, understand why Munhwa would get herself involved in something this stupid. Munhwa is usually such a level-headed woman, so why on earth would she cooperate with someone to drug her own (adopted) son, especially since the Evil Queen is someone she openly despises?
Even though I watched these episodes a while back, I still don’t get the reason for all this.
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Post by TheBo on Oct 13, 2009 11:34:00 GMT -5
The "pill" thing gets me, though. Even today, most Chinese medicine revolves around herbs, or extracts from herbs. Now, I could be wrong, but the idea of a pill seems very Western, and I'd be surprised if Koreans (especially of that era) ever considered taking medicine in pill form. I disagree, if I may jump in. You can roll any paste into a "pill" form and dry it--it would not be like WE think of pills, small, smooth, hard and compact and swallowed on their own, though, it would probably be more like a pastille or tablet, which might have then been ground into a paste by the doctor or quack or whatever. It would, after all, make for easy dosage. Opium probably came in a small square tablet--you know, like hashish. (Don't ask. LOL.) I believe there have been "pills" found in ancient Egyptian tombs. The translator may be using the word in this way to describe the form of the medicine. Similarly, I can't think why you don't like the term "pharmacist," Tinkerbell. The person dispensing the drugs had a specific job doing so, and that person would have studied (as an apprentice, naturally) all of the drugs (herbs) and their interactions. I think "pharmacist" is fairly descriptive. I guess "dispenser" would be more accurate, but to a modern person, the word "dispenser" probably brings to mind something mechanical (tape dispenser, water dispenser) rather than a human being. Bo
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Post by kathleen34 on Oct 13, 2009 12:05:36 GMT -5
When watching Dae Jang Geum, I remember being so taken wherein the 'pharmacy' was a room with shelves filled with boxes herbs and spices. Medications were created to meet any specific need. It was fascinating. ... and centuries later some of those herbs and spices are used to create our 21st Century medications as well.
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Post by TheBo on Oct 13, 2009 12:31:46 GMT -5
Yes, Kathleen, I was specifically thinking of DJG and also Huh Joon, where he trained in the "pharmacy" while he was an apprentice doctor.
Now that I think of it and re-reading my earlier post, probably the word "tablet" would be better to describe the form of the medicine than "pill." ;D
Bo
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Post by pilseung on Oct 13, 2009 13:18:29 GMT -5
Yes, Kathleen, I was specifically thinking of DJG Now that I think of it and re-reading my earlier post, probably the word "tablet" would be better to describe the form of the medicine than "pill." ;D Bo I think golf ball would be more appropriate than pill or tablet...LOL...remember how the dowager empress hated the garlic taste but that was something she had to eat so DJG rolled up these golf-ball like tablets for her!But lo and behold,NO garlic taste.
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Post by TheBo on Oct 13, 2009 15:00:19 GMT -5
Yes, Kathleen, I was specifically thinking of DJG Now that I think of it and re-reading my earlier post, probably the word "tablet" would be better to describe the form of the medicine than "pill." ;D Bo I think golf ball would be more appropriate than pill or tablet...LOL...remember how the dowager empress hated the garlic taste but that was something she had to eat so DJG rolled up these golf-ball like tablets for her!But lo and behold,NO garlic taste. Oh, yeah! LOL. I can't remember how she got the "garlickiness" out though. Bo
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Post by ajk on Oct 13, 2009 16:01:09 GMT -5
Yeah, I had the same reaction Bo did, only because we're talking about covert poisoning and drugging here. If you're going to sneak a drug around in your sleeve or wherever, it would help you out a lot if you could get it into as small and dense a form as possible. And solid, obviously. So maybe pill form was the tool of the poisoner.
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 13, 2009 20:33:30 GMT -5
I disagree, if I may jump in. You can roll any paste into a "pill" form and dry it--it would not be like WE think of pills, small, smooth, hard and compact and swallowed on their own, though, it would probably be more like a pastille or tablet, which might have then been ground into a paste by the doctor or quack or whatever. Opium probably came in a small square tablet--you know, like hashish. (Don't ask. LOL.) I believe there have been "pills" found in ancient Egyptian tombs. Well Bo, the only tablets I ever heard of being found in Egyptian tombs were clay writing tablets. ;D haha Thanks for your explanation. This is the first drama I've ever seen them refer to pills. Even when someone poisoned another person, they carried a little vile/ jar up their sleeve with either a powder or liquid that was mixed into the victim's food or drink. In one drama they applied the liquid poison on the rim of the cup. As for medicines, I've heard of powders, salves, poultices, infusions, tonics, juices and roots of plants etc. I've seen acupuncture and even that strange practice of burning cones of who knows what on someone's chest and stomach. Did they show the making of pills in Dae Jang Geum? I recently started watching the drama but I'm only in the beginning episodes. I thought the Prince went to the marketplace and I assumed he bought ginseng for her nausea from a merchant. The word pharmacy comes from a Greek word. Apothecary wouldn't quite fit either. Even if he didn't buy from a merchant, I would be interested in knowing what they called a place that prepared or dispensed drugs, remedies or cures. I realize they're using modern words and you're right. It wouldn't be good if people got confused. ;D
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Post by TheBo on Oct 14, 2009 9:56:24 GMT -5
Okay, we'll say "pellets"--things are rolled into pellets for ease of transport (such as hiding in a sleeve or pocket) or as an attempt at standardization of dosage, and rolling things into pellets is surely an ancient art. I'd guess it's how those pellets were used and manufactured that changed.
Funny, I was just reading a kvetch about coining words with Greek parts and French or German (or whatever) parts, which actually has a name--I think they're called "barbarisms"--the author was pretty miffed about the practice, but it WAS one of the Oxford English usage tomes. (I was having a fight with Bob. I was trying to make a point about my disinterest in the conversation. Sue me. LOL.) My point is, sometimes using formal English words--like pharmacist--conveys the formality of the language being used in Korean. Where I object is, when characters use modern slang. in Jumong, for instance, the translator used terms like, "He set you up!" (Set you up? You mean, "Betrayed you"?) or, "Listen up!" (er, don't you mean, "Heed the words of the King!"). LOL. I found Jumong equal parts entertaining and irritating, btw, and this was one of the reasons. So I can see your point, but I think you are wrong. Heee, heee, heeeee...
Bo
PS - I can't think of an "informal" term for pharmacist. Pill-pusher? LOL.
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Post by pilseung on Oct 14, 2009 14:34:56 GMT -5
PS - I can't think of an "informal" term for pharmacist. Pill-pusher? LOL. How's about a wannabe MD ? On a more serious note,an informal term might be: "DRUGGIST"
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Post by maranyc on Oct 14, 2009 20:01:46 GMT -5
.....Where I object is, when characters use modern slang. in Jumong, for instance, the translator used terms like, "He set you up!" ( Set you up? You mean, "Betrayed you"?) or, "Listen up!" (er, don't you mean, "Heed the words of the King!"). LOL. ..... Bo I watch IE on both WMBC and mysoju so I am not sure which translation it was but on more than one occasion the late King said to the court members when they didn't listen to him - What am I, chopped liver?
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Post by puppy on Oct 15, 2009 16:24:58 GMT -5
Snce you seem to be a few episodes ahead of us here in NYC, Mikey, and they STILL haven't given a reason for the drugging, I guess it was another of those false leads. BTW, what's it like out there in the AHC? Right now, New York is a damp, icy, slushy mess.
And mara, translations like the chopped liver thing really annoy me. Makes me wonder what else we're missing of the poetry of the Korean language. I also read, "you guys get my goat", "let's hit the road", and "no pain no gain" (Gang Jo to one of his soldiers).
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Post by mikey on Oct 15, 2009 20:07:31 GMT -5
I guess it makes some kind of sense for the Khitans to want to disrupt the Goryeo’s royal court by turning the emperor into a dope addict. But, I just couldn’t figure out why the Munhwa would want to cooperate. She wants him to stand up to Cheonchu (good!) but as you note, how can you possibly do that when you’re all doped up? Of course, the Evil Queen assured Munhwa that she has an “antidote” - but even if that’s true, I still don’t get why Munhwa would agree to the plot. Oh, and I just drove up to Flagstaff earlier today: sunny blue skies, with a high of 69 degrees. A little too late to catch the aspens changing color (they were more brown than yellow) but even so, the weather was about as nice as it gets. Sorry, I didn’t mean to crow about it. ;D
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Post by tinkerbell on Oct 15, 2009 22:05:32 GMT -5
I watch IE on both WMBC and mysoju so I am not sure which translation it was but on more than one occasion the late King said to the court members when they didn't listen to him - What am I, chopped liver? I remember the chopped liver statement along with some that puppy mentioned. Some don't stand out too much but others make you roll your eyes or laugh. One of the worst was Yang Kyu, a soldier in the northern territory went AWOL. To name a few more, I've read mumbo jumbo, advanced technology, the Prince was party hopping, the King was asked by the Queen to put his autograph on the document, fire up the war machine, throw me a lifeline and it's a pipe dream. I guess pipe dream isn't that out of line since it means "fantasies induced by the opium pipe". Did the King say that after taking a golden pill?
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