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Post by MTR on Sept 2, 2009 18:26:09 GMT -5
I noticed that the author has many dates wrong ,citing the reign of Daeryangwon being from 1084 -1097 long after he was actually dead (though i bet KBS could find a way to bring him back ). Also the author lists Hunae (Honae )as living from 964-1029 when its generally thought she died at age 46 in 1009 .
So yes good reason to be suspect ,Also this is the only piece on Hunae that gives her tenure a good review ,but considering the political bent of the authors of the Goryosa the accepted History could be a ''Richard 3rd "type slander .
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Post by simisteve on Sept 7, 2009 11:43:42 GMT -5
We just went thru 58/59 ( i think) this weekend in LA. This show is so bad, it's almost good. There is a scene in 58 that I swear is scripted right out of a high school drama (and acted as such too). The wife turned to me and asked "Do they have any idea...." and before she could finish I said "No, they don't. They have no idea". I can't wait to see ajk's summary for this ep....he may bust a gasket. ;D
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Post by Ducky on Sept 8, 2009 2:30:29 GMT -5
There is a scene in 59 that I swear is scripted right out of a high school drama (and acted as such too). Could you be more specific?... Which scene?... You described most of the episode...
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Post by simisteve on Sept 8, 2009 14:40:14 GMT -5
Ducky, its in 58 (I think.,...I need to go back and check the number) where Gang Jo is looking for Hyangbi all over his empty house, somehow NOT seeing the huge letter sitting on the table. then finally, he says "oh, whats this?".
sheesh!!!!
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Post by ajk on Sept 14, 2009 11:02:34 GMT -5
(This information was posted by consoleman in the East Coast thread. Since it contains historical spoiler info, I've moved it here. It's intact as posted.)
from consoleman:
Actually, the real Kim Chiyang was cousin to Cheonchu. The real love story was, Kim was Cheonchu's child lover when they were young. After Cheonchu's son became emperor, Kim was house arrested being new emperor's mother's illegitimate lover. Later, Empress Cheonchu ordered Kim to free and even gave him position at royal court. Then they had illegitimate baby son. Fearing his mother and her lover might kill him for their baby to become crown prince, the emperor called Gangjo. Then Gangjo staged military coup which kills Kim Chiyang and the emperor under name of cleaning indecencies, which made Empress Cheonchu gave up her position and settle down at her home after losing two sons and her lover. And it was Gangjo actually staged to have child emperor so that he could influence the royal court. Well, his dream became short lived after Khitan launch 2nd major war with Koryo. Gangjo, Yang Gyu, along with his best generals fought Khitan forces for last time and eventually they were killed at the battle front. And because the battle was so horrific and intense, as well as losing their top commander, Khitan had to withdrew from war campaign. Both had heavy loses, Koryo lost most of their best warriors and this was much same for Khitan side. This was turning point for new Koryo emperor and Khitan. after this war, Khitan became bankrupted and weak, you'll notice this because during 3rd Khitan invasion of Koryo. Koryo army finishes off Khitan, at 3rd major war, Khitan lose most of their army to Koryo's Gang Gamchan. This is mainly due to their 2nd attempt was so heavy, they could only bring 100,000 men but their 2nd attempt did brought 400,000 men. After the 3rd war with khitan losing big time. Khitan also lost wars with Jurchen + Balhae remain forces as well as Song China in south. Which eventually Khitan collapsed.
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Post by MTR on Sept 14, 2009 15:21:04 GMT -5
Its interesting inso much we have two versions of Cheonchu's death ,one is she was killed by Gang Jo along with Kim and Mokjong The other has her being banished . Gang jo was captured alive (he thought he had won the battle and decided to have a game of Go and that was his downfall ) and after declining an offer to switch to Khitan he was flayed and beheaded . We read all this great history and wish the drama could be somewhat like the info we read here .
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Post by brooklyn on Sept 14, 2009 23:42:31 GMT -5
I think they went too soft on us. I'm dying watching the lovy-dovy between chiyang/hunae, and the pining of Hyangbi over Gang, Gang/hunae. After watching 300, this is child's play.
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Post by consoleman on Sept 16, 2009 0:30:39 GMT -5
Its interesting inso much we have two versions of Cheonchu's death ,one is she was killed by Gang Jo along with Kim and Mokjong The other has her being banished . Gang jo was captured alive (he thought he had won the battle and decided to have a game of Go and that was his downfall ) and after declining an offer to switch to Khitan he was flayed and beheaded . We read all this great history and wish the drama could be somewhat like the info we read here . No, Cheonchu wasn't killed by Gangjo, more like she banished from political life and because her illegitimate lover Kim was executed under being traitor to Koryo, she too was to be removed from politic. Eventually she is recorded as sinister woman who plotted to kill her own son for her second son to become new emperor. This brief political chaos gave Gangjo the chance to stage military coup and start of military junta style regime, which gave Khitan vey reason to attack Koryo because Cheonchu was their ally.
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Post by MTR on Sept 16, 2009 17:10:30 GMT -5
Consoleman There is so little info about Korea in English and much of it misleading ,so us history buff's rely on people like yourself with a good knowledge of Korean History to fill in the blanks for us and help us with our Korean History ,so a biiiggg Thank You to yourself .
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Post by consoleman on Sept 16, 2009 23:09:30 GMT -5
Koryosa (only survived record of Koryo Dynasty history, compiled in early Choson Dynasty by ex-Koryo scholars) shows Empress Cheonchu was made blood-sister with Emperor of Khitan Shenzong, which can be trace with Liao Dynasty & Song Dynasty records.
Cheonchu princess never became empress but she was called empress only during her height of political life because of she was only survived direct granddaughter of Koryo founder Wanggeun, direct daughter of fourth emperor of Koryo Dynasty, wife of fifth emperor of Koryo, only survived direct blood sister of sixth emperor of Koryo, direct mother of seventh Koryo ruler and aunt of eight ruler of Koryo. Records shows she lived through seven emperors of Koryo. And when Khitan empire withdrew from 1st invasion of Koryo, Khitan have asked Cheonchu to become 'blood-sister' of emperor Shengzong of Liao. Thus making Cheonchu the most highest royal position at the time in East Asia. And this is where Empress Cheonchu nick name comes from.
Position alone made her the most powerful figure in Koryo Dynasty, and this is why she could even had secret lover like Kim Chiyang that everyone knew about. It is believed that under her political influence, Koryo army was increased to 300,000 as she favored strong military. This was possible because of her position where she attracted many powerful figures, but Koryo scholars hated her because they could not influenced Koryo emperors. This is why when she left the political life, Koryo scholars and ruling classes recorded Cheonchu as foxy evil woman.
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Post by tinkerbell on Sept 19, 2009 21:01:15 GMT -5
I thought I’d share something about the link that was posted. When someone is unwilling to share a research paper, it’s not a good sign. The very reason people present their papers at these kinds of panels is to get their names out there and publicize their work, for the sake of their CVs and their careers. Requests for papers are ALWAYS answered, not only for self-interest but simply because it’s the professional, collegiate thing to do. So...I have a funny feeling that this paper may not have been well-received, and that’s why the author won’t share it. I could be wrong, of course. But I just thought I’d offer a buyer-beware here about giving any credibility to what’s in that summary. ajk, I didn't take much stock in that summary either. They are the only ones that I know of, that paint her as "the greatest woman politician in the Koryo dynasty". Just like in the drama, many of the other characters are shady, corrupt or power hungry. Everything she does is noble, courageous and in the best interest of the country and it's people. I don't believe the storyline of Chiyang feigning love for her just to accomplish his ulterior motives. I don't believe she was ever in Liao either. Where's the proof she was a Zena-like character and fought in battles? Certain accomplishments accredited to her in the article are attributed to her brother King Seongjong and her son when he became King.
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Post by MTR on Sept 21, 2009 15:30:29 GMT -5
What im hearing is that this drama should have ended at ep 68 which seems to be the pivotal episode instead they are dragging it out . The widow of Seongjong is now being played by an older actress ???yet Cheonchu is kept ageless ,Mokjong is killed by one of Gang Jo's men in ep 72 which is funny because historically Kim Chiyang who is killed in ep 68 died at pretty much the same time as Mokjong ,maybe a few hours earlier . This is just what i have heard so feel free to correct me as im going by hearsay .
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Post by consoleman on Sept 22, 2009 3:51:16 GMT -5
^ Actually that's not widow of Seonjong, it's daughter of one of the wive of Wangeun who shared closed relationship with grand mother of Cheonchu. That's why Cheonchu thought they will welcome her. Your right, this drama should have been ended with death of Gangjo, but I'm guessing producers are trying to add the third invasion of Khitan which general Gang Gam chan destroy invading Khitan army.
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Post by simisteve on Sept 22, 2009 22:37:59 GMT -5
Well good news and bad news from LA: Just saw ep 65, and it wasn't bad, only a couple of WTF moments. The bad news is that there were some jarring scene cuts, which indicates more cutting of the show, and this was proven at the 50min running time.
I almost get the feeling that when the writers have a clear idea of what the point of the episode is, then the writing is pretty tight....but when they are not clear about what is the point, we get this pointless filler.
Oh, and add Sagamun to the ageless wonders list. It's amazing how some characters DO age, and others just sit there.
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Post by MTR on Sept 24, 2009 15:35:49 GMT -5
I saw a clip from 72 which has Cheon -Chu suiting up in armor and riding off to fight the Khitan's again and i just cringed .
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