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Post by tinkerbell on Aug 4, 2009 21:19:47 GMT -5
Gang Jo killed King Mokjong (Song) and Kim Chiyang.
Unfortunately, the Khitans did not stop invading.
If given the OK, I will explain further.
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Post by mikey on Aug 5, 2009 9:19:43 GMT -5
Hey, it's a "spoiler thread," right?
I'd say go for it! ;D
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Post by SubPrimitive on Aug 6, 2009 10:05:59 GMT -5
I don't like gratutious martial arts scenes - but they are treading into unfamiliar turf (as did Sejong series with the girl on girl scenes) they have the current king (Cheon chu's son) is ready to take a walk on the wild side. Although in Lou Reed's song, there was Holly - from Miami FLA- the king has some poor traveling peasant slob who cross-dresses for a living? he does what? I hope they start a sex slave dungeon or something, then it could really kick into high gear. Hey they already got the babe in black with whip... Bob Here in L.A. we just slogged thru episodes 50 &51. All I can say is, I hope you like gratutious martial arts scenes. But I will hang in there, out of curiosity how the writers manage to figure this out to its ultimate conclusion. I have determined that I can't blame this mess completely on the listless performance of the leads. The writers seem to have no clue and once again we got a WTF moment where a 'martial arts demonstration' was called for, thus chewing up about 5 minutes of script. Oh, and episode 51 is a hum-dinger. Yikes!
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Post by MTR on Aug 6, 2009 19:40:15 GMT -5
Right of the bat Gang Jo (Kang Cho )was a crusty old warrior ,when Mokjong summoned him to Koryo ,he found the real summons was from Chiyang who he killed as well as Mokjong ,than Hunae was banished or killed ,I have 3 versions of her death . Gang than launched a military coup , The Khitans used Mokjongs death as a pretext to invade Koryo ,Gang was taken prisoner while he was playing a game of Go in the middle of a battle he assumed he had won ,after refusing to turn traitor he was flayed alive and beheaded .
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Post by tinkerbell on Aug 7, 2009 20:39:47 GMT -5
when Mokjong summoned him to Koryo ,he found the real summons was from Chiyang who he killed as well as Mokjong ,than Hunae was banished or killed ,I have 3 versions of her death . Gang than launched a military coup , The Khitans used Mokjongs death as a pretext to invade Koryo ,Gang was taken prisoner while he was playing a game of Go in the middle of a battle he assumed he had won ,after refusing to turn traitor he was flayed alive and beheaded . domyoungchun, I have read several versions too, including the story that Kim Chiyang was the one that summoned Gang Jo. Fact: *Most sources state that Gang Jo's bloody coup provided the Khitan Emperor an opportune pretext to invade Goryeo under the guise of avenging King Mokjong's murder. *Some called Gang Jo a faithful and upright man but others called him a dictator. *Despite repeated demands from the Khitan Emperor for Gang Jo to vow allegiance to him, the heroic Goryeo general steadfastly refused to bow in submission. Emperor Shengzong executed him on the spot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Each of the following comes from a different book or article. The reasons behind the events or the culprits involved differ. --The Goryeo Dynasty had a policy that put the civilian power over the military. The military generals were seen as servants, or even slaves of the civilian officials, and treated as slaves by many government officials and advisers to the king. This caused the coup d'état of General Gang Jo. -- When Kim Chiyang burned the royal palace to the ground, threatening to kill the King and take over, King Mokjong called General Gang Jo to the capital city. General Gang Jo executed Kim Chiyang and his supporters. Then, the scholar officials, enemies of Gang Jo, spread rumors and lies that the general was planning to take over the government for himself. These rumors reached the King, and he planned to kill Gang Jo. Gang Jo heard of the conspiracy and ordered his army to attack and kill all of his enemies, including the King. After assassinating King Mokjong, General Gang placed King Hyeonjong on the throne. -- Following King Seonjong's death, various ruling factions openly battled for control of the throne and contentious aristocratic clans became deeply embroiled in internal intrigues and disputes. The tumultuous transition of power that brought Mokjong to the throne masked the true state of affairs in the royal court. Behind the scenes, de facto control of the government rested in the tight grip of the Dowager Queen. In 1009, the Dowager Queen maneuvered to force King Mokjong to abdicate the throne. The young King responded to this serious challenge by appointing a close relative, Wang Sun (future King Hyeonjong) as the Crown Prince. To secure his personal safety, King Mokjong turned for help to one of his most powerful military commanders, General Gang Jo. He ordered General Gang to the capital and charged him with the protection of the crown. General Gang dutifully brought his troops into the capital and, in a brief period of terror at the royal palace, viciously eliminated the Dowager Queen and members of the Kim Chiyang faction responsible for the attempted coup. (I have read that she was killed and other sources say she was driven out of the palace and /or banished although she deserved death.) Gang Jo had far stronger ambitions than Mokjong ever imagined. General Gang quickly turned against the young King, assassinated him, and appointed himself supreme military commander of the Goryeo army. The young Crown Prince assumed the throne as King Hyeonjong, only to discover he reigned over a government now under the control of General Gang Jo. -- By 1009, during King Mokjong's reign, there was corruption and disorder in the court caused by the King's mother and in-laws. The King and his in-laws were purged by army General Gang Jo.Some of the officials and people did not quite agree with Gang Jo's extreme measures, but most felt good with cleaning out the corruption of the court. --One statement I came across said that Kim Chiyang was a close relative of Hunae. Another claimed she was a powerful woman from the Kim Chiyang clan. --She had an illicit sexual affair with Kim Chiyang whom she raised to a high official position. She and Chiyang plotted against the young King (her son). After Hyeonjong became King, he destroyed her palace because of the great scandal and shame she brought upon the country. (Note: Other than Wikipedia or other sites that are using information from the drama, Hunae is referred to as the Dowager Queen, widow of the late King or King Mokjong's mother.) ****This article or something similar must have inspired the writers of IE. Read the second paragraph. Unlike the other accounts, she tried to kill Prince Daeryang not her son. It details what a great woman she was. ****www.aasianst.org/absts/2009abst/Korea/k-132.htmIs your head spinning yet?
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Post by MTR on Aug 8, 2009 15:46:59 GMT -5
Really Spinning !!! I think we are coming to a conclusion that she was no where near as bad as those Neo Confucian Scholars writing some 500 years after her demise depict her . You are dead on about the Civilian officials ruling over the Warrior Class of course that would come to ahead in 1170 (as seen in AOW )Also the same thing happened in Japan in the very same year ,when the Taira /Minamoto Factions over threw the Royal Court only for the Taira's to than destroy the Miniamoto than making the mistake of spearing the Children who in 1185 destroyed the Taira and founded the Shogunate (see also Hojo Masako Japans answer to Hunae only more savvy ). Back to Hunae the funniest variation i read has her dumping Chiyang for a younger model and in retaliation he burned the Royal Palace forcing the King Mokjong (who was not an epileptic but probably consumptive )to call Gang Jo who decided it was time to clean house and kill the whole lot being Mother ,Son and Lover . It seems Hunae did have other Children one from Chiyang and two other Sons from her first Marriage ,i should say rather i heard but cant confirm as we do not know what happened to them .
We also have some variations of her death the most common being killed by Gang Jo . There is also her being banished to a remote Isle and taking poison (common punishment for Nobles ) Being banished and living in Isolation until she died of old age . Or being banished and taking(as in a Nunnary ) vows and living in a Temple .
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Post by kathleen34 on Aug 8, 2009 16:55:53 GMT -5
Thank you so much, tinkerbell, for such a very interesting post. It kind of increases the speed of spinning.
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Post by MTR on Aug 8, 2009 17:51:46 GMT -5
The spin comes from the fact there is little to no actual history of Hunae and pretty much nothing in English . All Korean Histories of that period were written in the Joseon Dynasty and are not factual as she was not popular with the authors probably because they being male Confucian Scribes with a resentment to women of power . And that is funny because in Korean History there are more powerful women from Seon -Deok to Chang Hyobin that either ruled or influenced behind the scenes than say in Chinese or Japanese History There are small bits in Chinese ,Khitan and Japanese Histories (because so many koreans fled there after their Kingdoms fell )about koryo but by and large a person who cannot speak or read korean is left with very little info ,that is probably why the historical postings ,mine for sure seem sketchy at best as we just post whatever info you read and a later posting based on newer info may not go hand in hand with a prior one hence "the spin"
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Post by jojo on Aug 10, 2009 9:29:58 GMT -5
Very fascinating!! Lot's to sort through, after the spinning stops. Thank you very much tinkerbell & domyoungchun!
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Post by MTR on Aug 10, 2009 17:15:30 GMT -5
Im reading a more scholarly text on Wu Zetian and im convinced the Confucians are misogynistic to say the least right down to the old sage himself and Mencius ,they constantly warn of the ....... "DANGERS OF WOMEN ""aaaghh im frightened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Anyway stands to reason a bunch of crusty old grouches with an extreme right wing bent would have nothing nice to say about Hunae .
The KBS tagline for the drama reads "SHE KILLED HER HUSBAND ,LOVER ,SON AND BROTHER ALL FOR LOVE OF HER COUNTRY " Hmmm well at this point we know she had Nada to do with the demise of #1 and #4. More so why would KBS put that when they do not even depict it in the series ?.
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Post by nightsky on Aug 20, 2009 0:53:45 GMT -5
For former fans of The Age of Warriors, a few familiar faces will be popping up once the series reaches episode 60 or so:
-The actor who played Brue, Yi Ui-Min's (The Archfiend's) sworn brother (the one who originally talked only in sign language) shows up as a general of Liao named Xiao Baiya.
-The actor who played Suhk Lyn (one of Cho Won-jung's cronies who achieved Goryeosa infamy by threatening King Myeongjong to his face) shows up in episode 65 as a minor general guarding one of the approaches to the capital.
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Post by MTR on Aug 26, 2009 14:21:46 GMT -5
I watched parts of 66/67/68 on Soju , So kim Chiyang has seized power ,Cheon -Chu and her bodyguard Dokyun (yep no Hyangbi or Gang Jo )are prisoners . lots of new faces too .
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Post by tinkerbell on Aug 29, 2009 16:25:38 GMT -5
Hyangbi and Gang Jo get married but you can tell he's still in love with Hunae. Poor fool. Kim Chiyang kills Hyangbi. He shoots her in the back with an arrow. Jerk!
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Post by jojo on Sept 1, 2009 6:57:19 GMT -5
****This article or something similar must have inspired the writers of IE. Read the second paragraph. Unlike the other accounts, she tried to kill Prince Daeryang not her son. It details what a great woman she was. ****www.aasianst.org/absts/2009abst/Korea/k-132.htmIs your head spinning yet? Thanks for the link!! The Association of Asian Studies sounds like an interesting organization.
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Post by ajk on Sept 1, 2009 11:24:23 GMT -5
I haven’t been in this thread in quite a while and I don’t want to read what’s here until the series ends. But I noticed jojo’s last post in the 20-most-recent this morning, and thought I’d share something about the link that was posted.
I tried to get that paper. I discovered the panel summary shortly after the conference was held, and I contacted both the chair and the discussant for that panel and asked them if I could get a copy of the paper to read and, with the author’s permission, to share here in the forum. I was told that the author is a younger researcher and this was her first presentation or some such thing, and that they’d be glad to ask her for me, which they assumedly did. I never heard back from either one.
When someone is unwilling to share a research paper, it’s not a good sign. The very reason people present their papers at these kinds of panels is to get their names out there and publicize their work, for the sake of their CVs and their careers. Requests for papers are ALWAYS answered, not only for self-interest but simply because it’s the professional, collegiate thing to do. So...I have a funny feeling that this paper may not have been well-received, and that’s why the author won’t share it.
I could be wrong, of course. But I just thought I’d offer a buyer-beware here about giving any credibility to what’s in that summary.
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