|
Post by tinkerbell on Mar 16, 2009 13:00:07 GMT -5
What happened to The King of Ming (hmmm, sounds like a question about a Chinese Benny Goodman)? That's funny wangdangman! ;D EPISODE 75 You're welcome jojo. I didn't consider that as a possible reason for Choi Manli's punishment, jojo. That does make sense, thanks. The person in the water was Jang Youngsil. I have no idea why they showed all those flashbacks about him. He's not dead. Then again, why did they show flashbacks a few episodes back? Why did the Crown Prince get blasted for his wife's extra-curricular activities .......I get the impression that the Crown Princess turned to these women because the CP has been ignoring her. She's starved for affection and her husband is too busy to be with her (not the real reason). That's why the Queen sympathizes with her. I'm not saying it's right but that seems to be the message the writers are sending. It's been like that from the beginning. It's apparent the CP doesn't have feelings for her. To me it's like Déjà vu to CP Yangnyeong. He also didn't like the wife his parents chose for him, drank heavily and rebelled against his father. Hangeul was the King's crowning achievement so I would think they'd show us more. The scrolling message at the end seemed premature. It doesn't make sense if they skim over that. I liked the forensic scenes too. It reminded me of similar scenes from "Damo". I'm so glad they proved Chundoong innocent. Even when they showed him using his left hand, I still couldn't believe he was the murder. I wonder what is wrong with Yun Hwe too. Yes, that was alcohol he was drinking. Although they haven't shown him drinking much like he used to, I'm wondering if he's been doing it in secret. I don't know what the Emperor died from, all they said was he was ill. Maybe the Emperors are being bumped off to make way for the Prince Imperial to be crowned so they can control things. A 9 year old certainly can't rule over an empire.
|
|
|
Post by ajk on Mar 16, 2009 17:00:06 GMT -5
Yeah, that's a lot of good info, tink--thanks. I don't know, all I can think of is maybe some of the manufacturing technology was lost even though the descriptions and specs were recorded? Kind of like a how'd-they-build-the-pyramids thing? I don't know, that's my only other idea. You're absolutely right, the whole "new weapons" business seems very odd, but on the other hand, they've been so good in the series about historical accuracy, I can't imagine that it's a complete mistake. Maybe one of our historian visitors can bail us out.
|
|
|
Post by jojo on Mar 23, 2009 14:02:18 GMT -5
Ep 76 What a terrible situation for the Crown Princess, ending up blackmailed by the two palace maids. I presume that she knew her behavior was unacceptable, but I’m sure she never thought she’d be blackmailed. What an awful mess. Looks like the new writing system will face the stiffest opposition of all Sejong’s projects. No one wants to give up their power. I hope Yun Hwe is around to see it happen.
|
|
|
Post by jojo on Mar 24, 2009 8:39:03 GMT -5
Ep 77 So the two palace maids run off to Choi Manli’s house. They complained about being used by the Crown Princess, so what do they think will happen to them now?! Choi Manli will end up using them too! His protection will only last as long as they are useful to him. It was interesting to see Choi Manli and Jeong Inji separately arrive at the same conclusion about Sejong’s intentions for the writing system. Choi is obviously against it, and it looks like Jeong may be for it, but it wasn’t explicitly shown. Interesting to see how these two buddies from the Confucian academy have gone their separate ways. Choi Manli’s character continues down a dark road. What a terrible thing to tell Hyang, in whom Choi had Hyang’s confidence in a student/master relationship, that you would exploit your own student’s ‘weakness.’ I’m sure that statement opened Hyang’s eyes into how Choi had been manipulating Hyang’s views for his own end, and not for the edification of Hyang. It was great to see Hyang stand up for himself and accept the regency. Excellent move on Sejong’s part, to let Hyang decide for himself.
|
|
|
Post by tinkerbell on Mar 25, 2009 19:49:33 GMT -5
Episode 76 I found it funny that Choi Yundeok thought the books on phonetics might contain a secret code pertaining to the new weapons technology. ;D I'm afraid Yun Hwe's days are numbered. His health seems to be getting worse. I really like him. Sosang is creepy in my opinion. What a mess is right. The Crown Princess has gotten herself into a terrible predicament. She was so happy, pleasant and innocent when she first arrived at the palace. The only one having a good time at the Queen's birthday dinner was Sejong. I think everyone knew about the Crown Princess except him and perhaps some of the ministers, which is surprising considering all the eavesdropping that goes on. I wish they'd show us what exactly Poongae is doing in Ming instead of us just guessing. Hwang Hee hasn't had much of a role lately. I'm glad to see him more involved again. He's a great character and I love to see him in action. The King is fortunate to have him on his side with yet another controversial project. Sejong now knows the truth. That had to be so difficult and embarrassing for the Princess.
|
|
|
Post by seven stars on Mar 27, 2009 1:58:32 GMT -5
Gotta give it to the Princess for going to him directly though.
I think the fact that he didn't know contributes to his depiction as a righteous figure. You're right in saying that there is a lot of eavesdropping going on, but the king isn't involved in it. Juxtapose that with what his father would have been doing. Probably would've had Jo Malseng spying or something.
I have to say that there are points during the series that I suspect some postmodern revisionism may be at work. Are we to believe that Sejong was an egalitarian of the highest order all the way back in the 15th century. I get that he is one of the greatest kings in world history but this guy comes across as the embodiment of democratic ideals, as much as that's possible for a monarch.
Having said that I love the series. Its up there with EWG and IYSS. In my book there is no better company than that.
Hope you've been well!
|
|
|
Post by tinkerbell on Mar 28, 2009 12:52:33 GMT -5
Hi seven stars, glad you're back. Some of the eavesdropping is intentional and some is accidental. Right off the top of my head I can think of two situations in which the King was eavesdropping. One was outside the Astronomy Agency when CP Hyang is sharing his frustrations with Jang Youngsil. Meanwhile, everyone is gathered for the Crown Prince's wedding! King Sejong and eunuch Um Jachi are listening to the conversation outside the workshop. Another incident was at the Hall of Worthies when Shin Jang grabs Choi Manli and accuses him of trying to provoke a fight between the King and the CP. The King was outside listening. Jo Malseng still does his share of eavesdropping, usually with Gim Jongsuh at his side. As for Sejong being an egalitarian, I have no doubt he was a benevolent ruler, but I think much of it was to accomplish his goals. He wanted Joseon to be an autonomous nation free from Ming. He needed Jang Youngsil's talent along with others (despite social status) to help accomplish this. His new tax codes made sense too because he needed money for all his projects and you can't get it from poor peasants. His policies on the right to a fair trial and confessions not to be extracted by torture, may have been due to his guilt over what happened to his own father-in-law Shim On. The land expansion, new weapons technology and even the new writing system could all help Joseon to be on equal footing with Ming. The poor were still poor, many were starving and being used as conscripted laborers to fortify the north. EPISODE 77 I really don't like Choi Manli hanging around with Jeong Changson and Gim Mun. It can only lead to trouble. Those two are always whispering in his ear and goading him on. I found it strange that Sosang and Danji showed up at Choi Manli's house. What made them think he was the person to go to? Was it for protection or to help them get revenge? Also, why didn't they just take the jewels they were offered and go live a nice life? If they get their revenge, what makes them think they will be allowed to live? There's nothing wrong with Choi Manli (or anyone else) disagreeing with the King's policies but I agree jojo, he seems to be traveling down a dark path. He certainly has changed. I never thought he'd resort to threats or anything underhanded especially after all those great speeches he hit Jo Malseng with.
|
|
|
Post by tinkerbell on Mar 29, 2009 11:49:49 GMT -5
EPISODE 78 Oh no, Yun Hwe!!! I knew it was coming but it was still so sad. I never thought I'd see Jo Malseng cry! I didn't think he cared for anybody other than himself. The letter Yun left to his grandson, Shin Sukju, (also played Yi Soon Shin's son, Myun in IYSS) was bittersweet. It reflected Yun Hwe's sense of humor. He was a great character and he will be missed. The whole drinking contest was ridiculous. Wasn't the Crown Prince trying to prove his worthiness? He thought binge drinking would show his competence? Great behavior for the future king. Amazing, neither one of them became sick or got alcohol poisoning! I hate seeing Choi Manli so bitter. I miss seeing him working together with the other scholars. Jo Malseng, the man to go to when you need something dirty done. I must say though, he's good at what he does. I am surprised he helped the CP without getting anything in return. He doesn't think the alphabet project will ever be completed. It's not like Jo to underestimate anyone.
|
|
|
Post by jojo on Mar 31, 2009 13:25:39 GMT -5
Hello Seven Stars! Ep 78 I was also surprised that Jo Malseng didn’t extract some sort of compensation from the Crown Prince. Perhaps bringing down Choi Manli was motivation enough. I understand Jo’s thinking on the alphabet; it probably was a long shot that it would be developed and then accepted. I’m glad Yun Hwe had the opportunity to travel in the country with Sejong before he died. Looks like all of Sejong’s closest & oldest advisors are gone. Ep 79 Another sad episode! I never heard of labor lasting several days!!! What a shame that the Crown Princess died after all that. I wonder how the Crown Prince will hold up with this. He lost 2 princesses to deposition and finally when he has someone he likes, she dies! Very sad. More bad news with Huang Zan being tortured by Wang Zhen. (Blasted Bastard! ) The boy emperor appears to have turned into a tyrant under the guidance of Wang Zhen. Ugh. Would be very interesting to see Jo Malseng in a face to face meeting with Wang. Does Jo realize he’s going there to help with the alphabet!?
|
|
|
Post by tinkerbell on Mar 31, 2009 16:02:53 GMT -5
EPISODE 79 I can't believe the CP finally has a wife he loves and she dies giving birth! How tragic. I wonder if this was another arranged marriage or did he have a say in choosing this one? He really has back luck with women. I was shocked to see Huang Zan being tortured by Haishou. I wish someone would have taken out Wang Zhen and Haishou long ago. I despise those two. You can definitely tell the new Emperor has been influenced by his mentor, Wang Zhen. I thought it was Hanlin scholar Yehjin that gave the calendar science information to Jang Youngsil when he was in Ming awhile back. I guess this is Wang Zhen's way of getting rid of an enemy by falsely accusing him. Obviously Yehjin wasn't going to confess to the crime. The actor playing the Emperor also played Minister Ryu Seong Ryong (Soon Shin's scholar friend) as a child.
|
|
|
Post by shekeremaker on Apr 6, 2009 1:06:26 GMT -5
EPI: 81
Is it my imagination or did Youngsil and the King set that accident up to keep him from going to Ming? If so, won't he have to go at some point anyway? If not, forgive my ignorance, but what was the significance of the accident?
|
|
|
Post by tinkerbell on Apr 6, 2009 14:23:30 GMT -5
EPI: 81 Is it my imagination or did Youngsil and the King set that accident up to keep him from going to Ming? If so, won't he have to go at some point anyway? If not, forgive my ignorance, but what was the significance of the accident? It's not your imagination shekeremaker, it's definitely a setup. EPISODE 80 & 81 Don't Wang Zhen and Haishou have anything better to do other than spying on and harassing Joseon? I was shocked to see Wang Zhen in possession of the phonetics books and the King's letter! The whole scene with the Queen's procession supposedly going to a Buddhist Temple was very good. It was nice to see Haishou come up empty handed. Wow, I completely forgot about that secret passageway that Baron Ok Hwan and his men used to try and gain access to the palace. Watching Choi Manli is like seeing a clone of Jo Malseng in his younger days. He has changed so much and even looks sinister now, including the evil sounding laugh. It was true what Choi said that Jo used to have his spies everywhere but now he does the snooping himself. Choi now has his spies, Jeong Changson and Gim Mun. I agree that Choi Manli is not out to save Youngsil. He just wants to expose the King and stop his plans for the new writing system so "they don't descend into barbarism." Jo Malseng has slowed down a bit but he's still clever. What a surprise to see him intercept the carriage Youngsil was being taken away in. Jo was right in speculating what would happen to Youngsil if Dongchang got their hands on him. I didn't like his alternative though. I hated to see Jeong Inji sitting with Choi Manli and Jeong Changson. I don't want to see him go down the same road as Choi has. Great timing for Gim Jongsuh to enter the room just when they were about to hand over the proof to Wang Zhen! Hopefully Jeong Inji's run-in with Jang Youngsil puts him back on track. So, some form of plan has been conceived to save Youngsil but it doesn't look like a pleasant one.
|
|
|
Post by jojo on Apr 7, 2009 13:02:33 GMT -5
Watching Choi Manli is like seeing a clone of Jo Malseng in his younger days. He has changed so much and even looks sinister now, including the evil sounding laugh. >: Excellent point! I remember Jo Malseng being loyal to Taejong in the beginning of the series, and slowly turning against him. It’s sad to watch this happening to Choi though. It was great to see the Queen get Haishou. She was amazingly cool, calm & collected!! It’s interesting to see things change with the generations. The degree of respect in addressing elders and superiors has deteriorated. I can’t believe the way Shin Sukju and Sung Sammun were talking to the King! In the old days, they would have been punished!! Seems to be a lot more loud arguing for one’s opinions without much thinking and listening. I hope Jeong Inji sees the light after being lectured by Jang Youngsil. Sejong must alternate between feeling embattled or alone, and could use the support.
|
|
|
Post by tinkerbell on Apr 9, 2009 13:04:23 GMT -5
I've also noticed how the new younger scholars are willing to fight to support the King. The Hall of Worthies has changed since it's inception.
|
|
|
Post by wangdangman on Apr 12, 2009 9:38:56 GMT -5
I have mixed emotions about this series. See, I was "raised" on Wang Ghun and Dae Jo Yeong -- both series were of earlier times and there were TONS of battles and sword fights and flaming arrows and catapaults -- in fact that was what was on the very first night I found Wang Ghun and was the reason I kept watching. Dae Jo Yeong was the same way -- and it helped that the same actor played both leads.
As a creature of habit, I lost interest after Wang was over and didn't watch the following series (until I married my wife, who reads constantly in her free time, I was like that with books -- I would read, read, read and then lose interest and might not read for a couple of months) and when WG was over I went into self-imposed Korean Historical Drama hibernation until I stumbled on DJY one night. Channel 35 repeated Wang Guhn a second time so I saw all the episodes, but they did not repeat DJY so there is much of that one I did not see.
The Great King Sejong? Not enough action for my taste, but there was enough underhanded scheming to keep it mysterious enough to make it interesting. I'm afraid that whatever series follows, being closer to our time, will have even fewer battles and sword fights and flaming arrows and catapaults.
Oh well, we'll see.
By the way -- don't miss Sunday night's episode (April 12, Happy Easter, by the way). I cheated and skimmed over the Episode summary on the Chicago board -- WOW! That's all I'll say.
And a PS -- I Googled JANG YUNGSIL and came up with a pretty good article from Wikipedia. However, since the articles are based on actual history, I learned the writers of this series have REALLY taken a ton of artistic license with the character.
The beating, China wanting his head and all the rest? Apparently as phoney as my great-great Grandfather's teeth. This is from the Wikipedia article:
"In 1442, King Sejong ordered Jang to build a gama, an elaborately decorated Korean sedan chair. The gama broke while the king was traveling, and Jang was held responsible. Although the king was against the decree, Jang was jailed for a long time, and was expelled from the royal palace. Later events of his life, including the date of his death, were not recorded.[31]"
Who says American writers are the only ones who can invent a story line that has no connection to history (as I've said before, watch "Gunfight At The OK Corral" with Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas if you want to see history butchered)!??!
|
|