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Post by mugwump on Feb 15, 2009 13:07:17 GMT -5
I will definitely rewatch the tape. You think Nalbal may have been the guy who caught Jo Malseng? I really thought it was Yi Chun, the upper part of the face did look familiar, but he never took the mask off so I can't be sure. Sejong really dropped the ball here. This is no longer a question of treating your political adversary well and setting a good example. The guy was clearly guilty of umpteen charges of bribery and corruption, punishable by death many times over by law. The whole country would have backed him on this one. But now we can wait and see how Jo and Ming get cozy and start trying to use one another.
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Post by tinkerbell on Feb 15, 2009 21:57:28 GMT -5
I'm fairly sure Jo Malseng was a real person and I have a bad feeling we haven't seen the last of him, wangdangman. mugwump, he definitely was one of the men protecting Sejong. You could be right about the other scene but it looked like Nalbal and didn't seem to be Yi Chun's fighting style. I know it's hard to tell just seeing the eyes and it was dark. EPISODE 66 Sejong is unbelievable!!! What is wrong with him? No matter how talented he thinks Jo is, is it really worth it all? He's fights the King on just about everything and is constantly trying to stab him in the back. Enough already! Sejong seems more concerned with protecting him than losing Choi Manli, a faithful, talented minister. Look at all the cocky answers he gave when Sejong was questioning him, fully knowing the King would put up with it. To top it off, look what he said to Choi Manli while he was in the cart, "The incompetence of the Hall of Worthies will be the main reason I come back, and if I do come back, I intend to crush you and the king to the bone." Utterly treasonous and he doesn't hide it at all. I find it very interesting that Wang Zhen and Haishou are interested in Jo Malseng, or has Haishou already done some business with him? I can picture it, two crafty slime balls.
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Post by tinkerbell on Feb 16, 2009 14:41:20 GMT -5
EPISODE 67 Yi Sunji, the scholar that was all excited to find the arctic latitude of Hanyang, also played Ji-Soon (the Archfiend's good son in AOW) and Jo Su-chang (shipwright that helped build the Turtle Ship ) in IYSS Gang Hui the eunuch bodyguard (Nalbal) didn't say a word the entire episode. I don't know why, there's nothing wrong with his voice. He spoke some in IYSS and Bichunmoo. Well, at least we saw him fight. I see we jumped ahead a few years. Crown Prince Hyang has changed since he was younger. He doesn't seem too nice especially to his new wife. She has a sense of humor and is friendly. He said he wasn't interested in women, I wonder what he meant by that? Sejong threatening the Jurchens with punishment? When does he ever punish anyone? Apparently the Crown Prince takes after his father when it comes to neglecting a wife. "You're asking me to do something you yourself are horrible at doing." Yikes! Haishou meeting with Jo Malseng, now that's a partnership from hell. So much for banishing Jo Malseng! He's still controlling things. The trouble in the north is getting worse. There's backstabbing and vying for power among the Jurchen leaders and the poor people are suffering again.
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Post by jojo on Feb 17, 2009 9:47:50 GMT -5
Ep 66, 67 I wonder if it is historically accurate that King Sejong allowed Jo Malseng to live, or if the writers kept him around for plot development. It's too strange that Sejong would keep such a horrific troublemaker around. It goes against Sejong's following of law and against his protection of the people. How many deaths were caused by Jo's machinations? Sejong gave Jo several chances to change his ways, but he just gets worse! At this point Jo Malseng seems to be completely motivated by hatred, spite & revenge. I can't believe he is allowed to have visits from military leaders! On the other hand, I think Wang Zhen beats Jo Malseng for pure evilness. Wang is creepier than the Japanese war lord on Tushima Island. Maybe Jo will meet his end at the end of one of Wang's daggers. What a surprise to see how the Crown Prince changed. He seemed so confident as a young boy, but now... Nice of the writers to spoil us on who the next king will be.
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Post by Candylover on Feb 17, 2009 16:51:12 GMT -5
I found a book published last year about the relation between King Sejong and Jo Malsaeng. Sejong, Involved in a Corruption Scandal: the Reconstruction of Jo Malsaeng's Corruption Scandal by Suh Jeong-Min Why didn't Sejong punish Jo despite of his corruption? I didn't read the book but according to a summary of it found on the net, Sejong needed his military ability (he was a minister of defence and showed his military ability in the invasion of the Japanese island) to stabilize the new territory just gained from the Jurchens (Ham-gil province: today, the north-east part and the nuclear weapon test site of North Korea), and he was successful after he was appointed to the governer of the territory. To Sejong, Jo's corruption or evil was nothing as long as he could stabilize the territory from the turmoils of the Jurchens. That was the author's conclusion. I suspect Sejong used Jo's evil in order to control the evil Jurchens. review.empas.com/view/8461970/desc/1
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Post by tinkerbell on Feb 17, 2009 19:35:30 GMT -5
Thanks Candylover for giving an explanation about why King Sejong didn't punish Jo Malseng. I knew he was later appointed Governor but couldn't understand the reasoning behind that either.
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Post by jojo on Feb 18, 2009 9:34:29 GMT -5
Thank you for the info Candylover! Always appreciated. With all of the minister rearranging we've seen before, I would have thought someone else could fill Jo Malseng's shoes. His military abilities have been mentioned, but not emphasized enough to stand out. The writers haven't really presented Sejong as being between a rock and a hard place in his decisions to retain & exile Jo. I think this has been confusing for the audience. (at least for me it has!)
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Post by ajk on Feb 20, 2009 16:05:22 GMT -5
So Jo was a real person too?! That's fantastic--thanks for that info, candylover. I thought he might have been a fictional creation, but obviously not. And big credit to the series again for historical accuracy. But I still agree with you both, tink and jojo; in the series it starts to strain credibility that Jo is still around after so many shenanigans.
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Post by jojo on Feb 23, 2009 12:38:25 GMT -5
ep 68 Yay! They found the marker!! What a joyous moment! When Dami and Poongae started wresting with each other I knew they'd find it, but it was fun anyway. What an awesome discovery. The implications are staggering. Great conversation between Hun Hwe and Yi Su before he leaves on the trip. Yi Su makes excellent counterpoints. Everyone seems so petrified about Ming that they can't think straight (ie: governed by their fears). Good move on Gim Jongsuh to create a diversion for Yi Su to leave. I'm glad Yi had the northerners to guide him, and Gang Hui looks like an excellent good bodyguard. I'm surprised at Choi Manli. He seems to be losing it. I can't figure out if he's in with Jo Malseng or if Jo Malseng's comments have been eating at Choi. Also surprised about the Crown Prince's attitude; didn't think he had it in him to go against his father. It looks like one of the newer generals, Yi Gak, is a mole. Have to recheck my tape; the 'leaking information' scenes happened quickly. I was also wondering if there's a spy in the Hall of Worthies. One of the new scholars acted funny when Jeon Inji found out about Gonghumjin. Given how quickly information leaks out, it's a wonder that Gim Jongshu was able to arrange Yi Su's clandestine exit from the city.
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Post by cotc77 on Feb 25, 2009 23:23:39 GMT -5
I love this series. I have been watching korean period dramas since The Age of The Warriors. Well written and gives me a break from cynical american television.
I love shows that show the complexity of human characters. This show is a joy to watch every sat and sum at 10:00.
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Post by jojo on Feb 26, 2009 7:43:46 GMT -5
Welcome! Welcome!! I totally agree with you. I love this series too. I fairly new to watching, having just started with Dae Jo Young.
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Post by jojo on Feb 26, 2009 9:10:19 GMT -5
ep 69 I can't believe Yi Su is gone. And he was so close to getting back unscathed. I liked how the horse found him (I presume it was his personal horse left at the inn). Not sure how Haishou got ahead of Yi Su after they missed him at the river. In any case, a terrible loss for Sejong. Not only was Yi Su his master from childhood, but one of his faithful supporters. Hopefully Yun Hwe has rejoined that group. I wonder what's up with Hwang Hee; he keeps going along with the ministers, but doesn't really say anything, as compared someone like Choi Manli. Nice to see Wang Zhen squirming, but I was surprised. I thought he'd be a complete stoic when faced with his own death.
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Post by tinkerbell on Feb 26, 2009 12:56:17 GMT -5
Welcome cotc77. EPISODE 68 I can understand both sides regarding the expansion issue (Liaodong). The people are still starving and are being forced to work, some are near death. Then there's the threat of war with Ming and the Jurchens. On the other hand, I can see wanting to be free from Ming's dominance and constant interference. I still don't agree with letting Jo Malseng live! Choi Yundeok was doing a fine job in the north and is very capable of handling the situation. King Sejong says Joseon needs new, stronger weapons. Does this mean we will see some Hwachas in action? I hope so. ;D I had a bad feeling from the start when Sejong asked Yi Su to find the Demarcation Marker. It was a bit lame how they found the marker but at least they found it. Pretty amazing actually considering how long it's been there and covered with over grown grass. I agree, jojo. That new guy in the Hall of Worthies is a spy.
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Post by tinkerbell on Feb 26, 2009 14:36:00 GMT -5
EPISODE 69 I wonder if Ming will honor the Demarcation Marker? The new Emperor seems just as evil as Wang Zhen and Haishou. I hated to see Yi Su go too. He was one of my favorite characters. He was very dedicated, loyal and upright. Why did he have to try and return alone? I can't believe Yi Su and a hand full of people held out against Tongmingge and his soldiers. Plus they protected the marker! I guess if Sejong wants to acquire potassium nitrate from trade with Japan or Mongolia, they don't know how to make their own yet. They better get with it. The scene with Wang Zhen about to be boiled was shocking!
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Post by tinkerbell on Mar 1, 2009 16:32:53 GMT -5
EPISODE 70 I don't understand why the King felt the need to acquire potassium nitrate from other countries. Between the years of 1374 to 1376, Korea began its first productions of gunpowder. In 1377, Choe Mu-seon discovered a way to obtain gunpowder by extracting potassium nitrate from the soil and made Juhwa (Chuwa), Korea's very first rocket. Further developments led to the birth of the family of Singijeon (Korean variation of the Chinese fire arrow). The hwacha was a brainchild of its predecessors, the Juhwa and the Singijeon. The first hwacha was made in 1409 during the Joseon Dynasty by several Korean scientists --including Yi Do and Choi Hae-san. Well by tonight's episode they were finally making their own. That was a close one for Jang Youngsil. I didn't get that whole scene when Dami died. Gim Jongsuh had his sword in the guy's chest and stayed that way as Dami protected him. The guy was holding onto the blade and Gim wasn't pulling it out until Dami finally went down. It was very confusing. There's another character killed off. Great, the devil's back. Do the ministers take turns fishing and then get called back to service?
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