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Post by BungalowDweller on Mar 8, 2007 9:03:19 GMT -5
This was a real mixed bag. The show begins with preparations for the festival in which Jini and her nemisis Booyong will finally dance their Crane and Drum dances for the King. I like that opening music because it is upbeat, optimistic, and happy. So far, so good. . . Next thing we know we see Jini with a passive, depressed expression. Despite the coaching and encouragement from Baekmu's rival, Maehyang (sp?) what should have been a time of her greatest triumph (and Baekmu's for that matter) she passes out. Apparently she was so distraught by the ugly remarks coming from the minister's table it rendered her insensible! This is totally out of character with Jini and too melodramatic. She, who has lived life as though riding the crest of a wave, telling these "nobles" off and living on her own terms has swooned over gossip??? Since when did she care what any of them thought? Of course it could be argued that she was in a deep depression but the story development is awkward here. One moment she is dancing at Baekmu's funeral as a tribute, the next she is prostrate at what should have been the greatest moment of her life! Minister Kim Junghan rushes to her aid and the old men watching act like he undressed her in public! What did he do "in broad daylight" that was so terrible? I'd really appreciate it if one of our History scholars can fill us in. Were they not to physically touch a performer unless it was dark and they were alone? I don't understand this at all and the phrase "in broad daylight" was also used by the King. What, exactly, was the disgrace? The subsequent slide of Jini into deep depression, drinking bouts, etc. seemed contrived and over-wrought. Again, the pace of the story development just did not render her behavior believable. I found it disappointing and knee-jerk. I want to know how and why she became the way she did. Yes, of course I know that it's because of guilt but it just is unbelievable and therefore disappointing. Towards the end of the program we are treated to Jini being saved from the brink of the cliff from the Minister who pledges his love in a voice-over. If Jini was so out of control and suicidal, I cannot imagine her bodyguard Moomyeong leaving her to go to the capital to get the Minister when her musical partner was on his way. It was out of character for the bodyguard as well. Jini is saved in the nick of time and in the closing moments where we are, at times, treated to coming attractions we see an angry, wild-with-jealousy Mr. Boek (sp?) going after the couple who appear to have run away together. This program seems to have taken an ominous turn and it seems to me that although boy Does get girl, they are destined to a bad end! I hope not!!!
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Post by BAE on Mar 8, 2007 11:25:44 GMT -5
Well, the plot is moving too quickly, a very good point you brought up. They have not paced this drama well enough and although the viewer can "fill in the blanks" it's too heavy and serious to make much meaning of it. I can understand why Jini does the things she does, as you mentioned, it's because she's depressed about her actions and the words of others, but it's still a little too vague. Everything seems to be happening faster than it takes to grasp the situation. I don't know how many more episodes we have left, but I wish they would use the time left to pace themselves and go through this show laying things out. It just looks cleaner and more meaningful than just rushing into things and having characters act so unlike themselves.
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Post by gpaul on Mar 8, 2007 12:30:12 GMT -5
There are 5 more episodes (24) in all. I am wondering what happens to her and the Minister at the end. I hope they can be together, but I doubt it. I also hope that Mr. Byeok gets his just rewards at the end, he is so nasty.
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Post by CaptainVideo on Mar 8, 2007 16:07:49 GMT -5
Hey bungalowdweller, do you really think that Jini's perfomance at the funeral was a rational act? Perhaps you've forgotten that she was in denial immediately upon seeing Bakemu's corpse, screaming that she has to wake up because there's more that Jini has to say to her.
As far as Minister Kim's faux pas, he is of the upper class and she is a lowly vassal of the government. Remember, he can't marry her because of his status, so it's certainly beneath his stature to aid her when the other ministers are openly calling for her punishment. That one minister complained about Minister Kim's departure from proper decorum.
What I've gathered from these historical shows (and even spilling into the contemporary stories) is a a strict adherence to protocol and procedure. Minister Kim does have an ally in the King though, and that's why he is let off the hook and warned by the King not to do that again in public because he's already disliked by the other ministers.
Here's something else I just thought of, remember when Maehyang cried that upon Baekmu's death, she had lost her rival in life and thus, her passion to live? Well, Baekmu was also Jini's rival as well as her mentor. There's a psychological condition existing in the human male which makes the son determined to surpass the father in terms of strength and influence to prove his coming of age. That's how I view Jini's relation to Baekmu and now she had sort of lost her purpose in life as well as the force which drove her defiance. IMHO.
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Post by zorro on Mar 8, 2007 17:27:03 GMT -5
Bungalow, I'm sniped by the Captain, but since I spent an hour thinking about this and typing it all up, I'm posting anyway. I had many of the same reactions, but after thinking about it more, I can understand this "in limbo" episode, and in a way find it much more believable than if Jini had been able to go on as if nothing had happened. I really can't argue any of your points, but there wasn't any time frame mentioned as to how long after Baekmu's death the festival was held. Jini was looking to be in a state of shock and denial from the moment she appeared on screen. Since we were presented with the festival as the opening of the episode instead of some kind of transition, I just thought that some time must have passed, and was ready to root for her to kick some Booyong booty on the dance stage. I don't know about anyone else, but the "Drum" dance doesn't strike me as a real dance like the Crane or even the Knife dance, which seemed truer to form. So I expected Jini to prevail, and was disappointed to see her collapse for many of the same reasons you mentioned. Also when the King was looking at the score book of the Crane dance the drawings looked exactly the same as Baekmu's book… and the King actually remarked that Jini must be devastated after losing her friend and teacher. She seemed in a trance, and definitely not ready for this competition. The Minister peanut gallery's comments were probably just enough to put her over the edge. I don't really blame her. Artists by nature are many times tortured souls, and she acted somewhat similar after Eunho died. Now she's going through Baekmu withdrawl, and she's lost her mojo. I didn't like all the drinking either, but what are you gonna do? As far as Junghan's faux pas, his actions were considered by the Ministers to be an insult to the King. By coming to her aid, he had supposedly taken Jini's side against the King, whom she had also insulted by ruining the party. I'm sure all the Ministers are instructed in strict decorum, and Junghan clearly went against this. Later when the King warned him after his pardon he added that he didn't want false rumors starting up, presumably because it would make him (the King) look weak. Some other thoughts… I thought Moomyeong went to get Junghan instead of "Accompanyman", not in addition to him. And Maehyang has softened her disposition noticeably except of course to Booyong, who's still being a Booyitch. I thought the ending was very confusing, but maybe tonight they'll clear that up somehow. I was glad to see the flashbacks with Baekmu. I was hoping they might do that for at least one episode. CV made many of these points better than I, but if nothing else, I reiterate.
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Post by BungalowDweller on Mar 8, 2007 20:21:18 GMT -5
Captain and Zorro, Good points. The time frame is very important and not knowing or getting a sense of how soon the festival occured after Baekmu's death makes a difference in understanding Jini. I like your insight, Captain, about the relationship between Jini and Baekmu. They were both artists who were committed to performance and toward the end they were more like artistic peers. And the mother-daughter angle is one I never considered but one in which I heartedly agree. The tortured artist characterization is a true one. Sad, but true. Boozing, dope and depression. . . Zorro--it's a fascinating insight that the king would be personally insulted by Minister Kim's chivalry towards Jini. He was irritated and got up and left so I thought he didn't care either way. And I agree with you 100% about the Drum Dance. I didn't think that much of it myself. I think the Crane would have won hands down! ;D
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Post by CaptainVideo on Mar 9, 2007 9:38:48 GMT -5
Well, we've now learned that it's never a good idea to tick off the King. It's going to be a very long wait for Wednesday's episode; I have a feeling that there were no previews because this is going to be huge. Sorry for scooping your post, zorro. So, I guess the obvious question would be, since I have seen your name posting for several months (perhaps a year?) and the fee for joining the board is non existent, what's the aversion to acquiring membership? Do you enjoy the little puzzle you need to solve as a guest? Is it a matter of trust? This is the time of year that public broadcasting is engaged in their membership drives, I thought I might try to entice you to join with a little humor since we don't offer premiums as incentive......
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Post by ginnycat5 on Mar 9, 2007 15:32:16 GMT -5
We do have the occasional party, tho. About that nasty person, Be-yuck. Doesn't he have any older men relatives who reprimand him for his obsession and disgraceful conduct? Or a mother who tells him to get married and stop wasting his money on thugs? (Or maybe he IS married-can't his wife hit him with a pot?)
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Post by BAE on Mar 9, 2007 17:03:33 GMT -5
He is married. But, he's the town "player." And being the King's relative gives him added freedom. But, BECAUSE he is a relative of the king, shouldn't that mean that he conducts himself properly so as to not defame the king???
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Post by BungalowDweller on Mar 9, 2007 19:30:41 GMT -5
Bae, how do you know he's married? Was that in the show or do you know it from historical knowledge? For a married man he sure has alot of time on his hands! ;D
And you're so right about decorum. One would think that he would have to be on his best behavior because of his obligation to present a good picture of the royal family. Who tells a royal noble when he's out of line?
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Post by sunshinek on Mar 9, 2007 20:50:46 GMT -5
Mr. (Evil himself) Byeok is MARRIED!!!! his poor wife. Well we know he is married because when the minister of rites first talked to him about being obessed with Jini. The minister told him to go home to his wife and tend to her. He just kind of shrugged him off by saying playing with woman is the only thing his is good for because if he tried to really do something good it would seem like he was trying take power from the king because he is royal so he was kind of caught between doing whats right and being a "playboy". He choose to be a playboy because no one would question him if he was a playboy. As far as the horrible attitude well who's going to tell on him??? NO ONE but another royal and so far he seems to stay far away from them including his own wife. Look at Danshim we all know that his that baby's father but she couldn't say that to him and she can't go tell anyone that he is the father because he'd just deny it and spread rumors about her like he did with Jini Ok while i'm talking about Jini the poor child has almsot lost her mind and Mr. Evil just sent her over the edge. She felt guilty because a little of what he was saying was true from an outside view it would seem she was power hungry because she had sent Baekmu over the edge thinking all her work was for nothing. That is why Baekmu lost her cool in the first place. Jini was partly to blame well actually she wasn't because everyone is responsible for thier own actions. She was just the catyalst to the whole reaction and since the reaction was going back and forward in equilibrium the cataylst Jini got tossed around. Example Jini started baekmu to think about her 30yr career--> jini refused to marry mr. evil/ mr.evil goes crazy -->baekmu she cracks under pressure --> Jini accepts marriage to mr. evil/mr. evil becomes nice --> Baekmu kills herself to save jini career and at the same time destroy her 30 yrs of heartless work/ mr. evil goes crazy. The result is jini goes crazy/ mr. evil calms down and accepts her as an artist. Which is complete turned upside down again when mr. evil realizes that jini and minister of rites have run off. I hope all this makes sense now....
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Post by ginnycat5 on Mar 11, 2007 12:10:48 GMT -5
When Jini talked about her guest, who's "shy," I wish she had put her hand on her stomach, at least given him a hint, because they may not be able to talk anymore. Looks like doom is upon her. Maybe I should go back to the spoiler page; it's so hard to wait to see what happens.
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Post by CaptainVideo on Mar 12, 2007 11:15:37 GMT -5
First of all, I really would not like to sound as if I am defending Byeok's actions here, I think it was gpaul at the gathering to whom I told this, but it really helps to watch these stories through Korean eyes and check your American values at the door.
In case you missed this information in the thread about the event at H-Mart last month, there is some key information that you must have in order to fully (at least better) understand the actions of the characters, while seemingly deplorable, are actually kind of codified by society and therefore not nearly as outrageous as they seem on the surface.
Okay, so in case you don't know, the gisaeng system is government run and owned; that's the reason that the government officials can freely dish out punishment on the women and the reason that they can't just lead their lives as they see fit, including leaving the compound without permission. If nothing else, remember that point, because if you go against the government, you're basically going against the King. So, that's the paramount point to remember. Just a little note of interest here, the see-say (teeter tawter, if you will) was the most popular toy of amusement for the gisaeng, because if the opposing person sent the other high enough in the air, they could see over the wall in midflight, so this was a way for to cooperating women to get a view of the outside world without breaking the rules.
Next, the reason for having the system of gisaengs in place is to provide sexual relations for all men, but particularly for married men ; the reason for this is like the Catholics, sexual intercourse with the wife was only as a means to procreate. As you might guess, this would lead to a lot of tension in the men (women, too, but the King is a man and that's the way it is) and therefore, the gisaeng system was born to accomodate the men's sexual desires.
Therefore, if you may recall from the subtitles, the "wedding ceremony" that was to join Myeongwol and Byeok was to have him acquire her as a concubine; I guess that implies his marital status but also speaks to his status in government and society which prohibits a person like him from marrying a gisaeng (that's why minister Kim was so torn over her, the ultimate forbidden fruit). If you recall, prior to Eunho meeting his early demise, he was planning his life as a farmer/peasant due to the fact that he would have to relinquish his status of nobility by marrying beneath his social class.
If you read carefully through the lines of diaglogue, the women do mention briefly about having to "serve" customers and they aren't always talking about wine. So, that's what they do for a living; depending upon their level of skill in the arts, the gisaeng will have to "serve" all that can afford her, but the top echelon can only be afforded by the upper class. In the event that a nobleman takes a particular fancy to a gisaeng, he may acquire her as his personal concubine and thus end her having to "work" for hire and becomes the property of the nobleman. This is actually a desirable position as she will be taken care of financially and will only have to "serivice" one man instead of many.
I know it's kind of weird sounding, but doesn't the story make a different impression now that you know this information? I hope I helped.
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Post by kathleen34 on Mar 12, 2007 11:46:49 GMT -5
it really helps to watch these stories through Korean eyes and check your American values at the door. right you are, CaptainVideo. When asked, many of us state how much we enjoy learning about the culture... And what you explain is in fact, the Culture of that time and within that environment. We sure don't have to like it as 21st Century Americans. But if we truly enjoy learning about the culture, it all goes with the territory.
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Post by ginnycat5 on Mar 12, 2007 17:53:29 GMT -5
Yes, thanks for reminding me, Captain Video and Kathleen. Note to self: It doesn't do any good to grouse about it as if it were 2007. Still, there are kind people and there are selfish willful people. Even if the law supports his actions, I don't like him. He's a spoiled bully who enjoys royal prerogatives without any responsibility (that we have seen, anyway). Fie on him.
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