It's Good to be King?

[zorro]

Help me out here.

Khan goes and makes himself King, and declares a new state of Yinghzou for his Khitan tribe. Everyone is happy, except the Emperor of course, who renames (and denounces) him, and corrects Yinghzou's status from a state to a prefect, whatever that is.

If he's a "real" King, why does he care what she does? Can't he send back his own decree negating hers? Theoretically she has no jurisdiction in his new State, right? Or does she rule over all states, which make me wonder how he thought he could declare himself King without her permission?

What good was pronouncing himself King of a new State if he has no autonomy? And why didn't the all knowing Shin Hong advise him of this consequence? Did I miss something again?

[pip]

zorro said:

Help me out here.

Kahn goes and makes himself King, and declares a new state of Yinghzou for his Khitan tribe. Everyone is happy, except the Emperor of course, who renames (and denounces) him, and corrects Yinghzou's status from a state to a prefect, whatever that is.

If he's a "real" King, why does he care what she does? Can't he send back his own decree negating hers? Theoretically she has no jurisdiction in his new State, right? Or does she rule over all states, which make me wonder how he thought he could declare himself King without her permission?

What good was pronouncing himself King of a new State if he has no autonomy? And why didn't the all knowing Shin Hong advise him of this consequence? Did I miss something again?

I have no knowledge of ancient Goguryeo, so this reply is based on my understanding of what is happening. I find it easier to grasp if I think of it as analogus to America's War Between the States. I use that name for it because it seems to apply here, too.

Our Southern states seceded from the Union. They set themselves up with a Confederate government. This appears to be what the Khan did, too. Emperor Shengshen is responding to this by telling the Khitans that she cannot allow them to do this. She never granted them permission. The Khitans are saying, "We don't need permission to govern ourselves," much as the US Confederate states said.

The Khan was the Prefect of Yingzhou. Another word for Prefect is Administrator; one could even say Governor. A prefecture is an area that is overseen or governed by an Administrator but which is ruled by a higher authority, such as the Emperor.


The only response the Emperor could make was to declare Yingzhou in rebellion, and go to war. That's what happened here in the US.

Now, if there are some history buffs who would like to tell me I'm all wet and to tell us what the real story is, please do so. I'd love to know.

[ajk]

The whole thing seemed odd to me too, Zorro, somewhat for different reasons. It did seem weird that the Khan would be so upset by the emperor's reaction. He's an astute guy; what the heck did he think she would do—send him a housewarming gift? And then running to DJY and begging for help, AFTER they dug themselves into the hole...not a lot of advance thinking going on there. But the king stuff is all new to him so I guess we cut him a little slack.

Shin, he doesn't seem to care about a Khitan state as much as Kaigu's welfare and accomplishments. Telling Kaigu that even though Tang is approaching, DJY is his enemy? That is some big-time spin. Plus he seems fixated on getting Kaigu to kill DJS and avenge his former master's death way back whenever that was (#3?).

My big thing with the episode was how everybody in the coronation scene (with the exception of DJS, who knew better and you could see it in his face--nice acting) could be so proud and happy and think that this was a great new beginning, with nobody appearing the least bit concerned that this would almost certainly bring mighty Tang down upon them. It just didn't even seem to be in anybody's head. I know, it's a proud moment and they've waited for it for a long time, but it was like they were all in denial. DJY was very wise about it—let them go first, "bide our time learning from their mistakes."

I've always understood Yingzhou to be a prefecture ever since the scene where the Khan first appeared before the emperor Gaozong. I can't remember the exact episode number (somewhere around #55, I think), but it was the scene when he hoped to be granted independence and instead was disappointed because the emperor gave him an administrative title. Nobody had declared it an independent state in the series until now. pip described a prefecture the same way I understood it; I also found a Wikipedia entry that gives more details about it:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefecture_(China)

Also, it was very interesting to hear the narration about Zhao really being decapitated by the Khitans in 696. So it sounds like that really did happen.

[Betz]

"Kahn goes and makes himself King, and declares a new state of Yinghzou for his Khitan tribe. Everyone is happy, except the Emperor of course, who renames (and denounces) him, and corrects Yinghzou's status from a state to a prefect, whatever that is."


This is info I did not want to know ahead of time



...not all readers of this board are up to
this storyline yet

[shipweol]

This happened last night. Is it appropriate to hold back for the reshowing of a program the next day? I am new and not sure what the standards are.

Thanks.

[JP Paulus]

shipweol said:

This happened last night. Is it appropriate to hold back for the reshowing of a program the next day? I am new and not sure what the standards are.

Thanks.

i have asked that episode #'s or dates be added in the subject line. That way, not only can East Coast people (or those taping/viewing the next afternoon) avoid the discussion, but we can reference it later as appropriate.

If someone see these show's ahead of Chicago's schedule, they should post such information in the spoiler thread.

Betz, i woud suggest looking out for east Coast threads or going back & finding old messages from around the time you are referencing.

[Betz]

Hi JP... thanks for your comments...

"Betz, i woud suggest looking out for east Coast threads
or going back & finding old messages from around the time
you are referencing. "


I'm in Philly - we just saw DJY #52... other east coast
areas may have different timetables...

Chicago is way ahead of Philly, so when I
visit the DJY forum I usually avoid topics
with eppy #s higher than what Philly is currently
seeing or topics that have spoiler in title...

the first post in this thread does not say
which eppy # ... I just jumped in and was
spoiled by accident... it is ok... I'll survive...

[soapygrams]

One of the reasons I stated in a previous post that ALL "spoilers" be put into the spoiler thread was so those persons who are not in the Chicago area would not accidental read a spoiler. It's very difficult to keep Chicago area board members from starting threads about the current episodes we have viewed in our area. None of us intentionally place spoilers to "spoil" someone. The title of this thread was about a King - since there was no King as such since Bojang, it would be a bit evident that this must be something NEW. Guess for the sake of those who are behind our viewing schedule, it should also carry the caveat "Might be a Spoiler" -
Sometimes it is very difficult to get the episode number. For whatever reason, that part of the beginning of the show is actually sort of FLASHED and if you avert your eyes for as much as 3 seconds, you'll miss it. If you do know the episode number fine, but if not, I'd suggest just adding that possible spoiler language. ;D

[zorro]

Pip, Thanks for your analogy. That makes perfect(ure) sense to me now.

AJK, I used to be a Li Kaigu fan, but lately he's gotten on my nerves to the point of I'm hoping he and Li Wen fall off a mountain fighting each other. (After a lot of trash talking of course).

Soapy… if only we *all* had your common sense…

[Betz]

Thanks Soapygrams, I appreciate
your comments

"...title of this thread was about a King - since there
was no King as such since Bojang, it would be a bit
evident that this must be something NEW."

Guess I shudda looked before I leaped into
the thread - but I didn't

[truth]

this is strange.
The English subtitles calls the Khan as a King?
That's funny because they are calling him as an Emperor when they are speaking in Korean.

[soapygrams]

truth said:

this is strange.
The English subtitles calls the Khan as a King?
That's funny because they are calling him as an Emperor when they are speaking in Korean.

Maybe the translators don't want to confuse Eng-sub viewers with the female Emperor and Khan/King also being called Emperor. Just a thought???

[soapygrams]

zorro said:

Pip, . . . I used to be a Li Kaigu fan, but lately he's gotten on my nerves to the point of I'm hoping he and Li Wen fall off a mountain fighting each other. (After a lot of trash talking of course). . .

Zorro, thanks for saying EXACTLY what I've been thinking -- I can hardly wait to see both of these #$%^& guys meeting their just rewards. Gee, I don't remember the last time I felt so bloodthirsty -- LOL Li Wen annoys me so much I feel like grabbing him right through the TV and smacking him with a brick - but hey, I can't afford a new TV ... oh well, just have to sweep the stairs or something to vent my frustrations -

[JP Paulus]

Zorro,

regarding what the Khan did...it seems to me that it's his last opportunity while he is alive to get Yinghzou for Khitan.

At the time, it seemed like the alliance with Dae Jo Young would have insured Yinghzou being Khitan land, and that the Tang would be defeated.

The Khan didn't count on Li Kaigu's hatred of Dae Jo Young, and Kaigu's willingness to sabotage their only means of success. (i.e. Kaigu was the one who killed the Tang official...the Khan was willing to follow Xue Rengui; if he did, Khitan woudn't have been in as much trouble

[ginnycat5]

The Khan is being really dense. How could he not scold Li Kaigu after he wrecked the deal, then beheaded the Tang! Is he the Khan or not?! Li has no respect, yet no one bothers him. Wonder if Shin is intimidating the other guys?

Shin doesn't know that Geom isn't Li's son, does he? He looked puzzled.