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Namseng
Mar 13, 2007 22:21:49 GMT -5
Post by BungalowDweller on Mar 13, 2007 22:21:49 GMT -5
I think that Namseng is a tragic figure and a pawn in the game. Why he would trust the counsel of Shin #2 over the life-long loyalty of Heuk Sudol is beyond me. I think that he's nothing more than a prisoner of the Khitan. He may have the Tang commander fooled but Xue Rengui knows that Namseng is not to be trusted. I think that Xue would kill Namseng the first chance he gets. It was pathetic to see him leaning against the drapery attempting to eavesdrop. He undoubtedly knows that he's powerless. At least he knows not to trust Shin's counsel. He has shown courage when Xue waved his sword in his face and he seems willing to take risks. He saved DJY by standing up to Li Haigu and boldly walking DJY out of prison---but if I were he, I would have attempted to ride out with him. Better to die at the hands of your own than live at the pleasure and whim of the Tang. He provided DJY with good intelligence--he's so desperate--a man without a country! Maybe I shouldn't but I find him a sympathetic and tragic figure--like a Macbeth.
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Namseng
Mar 13, 2007 22:59:15 GMT -5
Post by Truth on Mar 13, 2007 22:59:15 GMT -5
I think that Namseng is a tragic figure and a pawn in the game. Why he would trust the counsel of Shin #2 over the life-long loyalty of Heuk Sudol is beyond me. I think that he's nothing more than a prisoner of the Khitan. He may have the Tang commander fooled but Xue Rengui knows that Namseng is not to be trusted. I think that Xue would kill Namseng the first chance he gets. It was pathetic to see him leaning against the drapery attempting to eavesdrop. He undoubtedly knows that he's powerless. At least he knows not to trust Shin's counsel. He has shown courage when Xue waved his sword in his face and he seems willing to take risks. He saved DJY by standing up to Li Haigu and boldly walking DJY out of prison---but if I were he, I would have attempted to ride out with him. Better to die at the hands of your own than live at the pleasure and whim of the Tang. He provided DJY with good intelligence--he's so desperate--a man without a country! Maybe I shouldn't but I find him a sympathetic and tragic figure--like a Macbeth. There are two different theories in Korea about why Yeon Namseng, the son of Yeon Gae So Moon, whom hated Tang more than anything, joined the Tang army. One, he actually DID betray his country. Two, just like in the drama, he is 'using' the Tang army until the day he becomes the new king of Goguryeo. Yeon Gae So Moon was a great leader in my point of view, however, there is one huge mistake he made and it was the fact that he trusted his sons. Unlike the father, the three sons of YGSM fought over the position of the Supreme Commander, which is one of the reason that Goguryeo had met its demise. I think Yeon Gae So Moon knew something like this would happen deep down in his mind, which is why he said at his deathbed "Brothers must get along well with each other just as the fishes get along well with water or the nation would be ruined" But did his sons listen? Nope. I don't think they resepcted their father at all. All they wanted was the power. I think they were just waiting for the day of his father's death. I bet you the day of YGSM's death was the happiest day of their life.
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Namseng
Mar 14, 2007 0:11:06 GMT -5
Post by bowflex on Mar 14, 2007 0:11:06 GMT -5
Its written in history that he did betray his country but if the story line in the story is some what true then him and his brother were taking advantage of. If the civil officials were not so dumb on creating a friendly relationship then Namseng would have been a great Supreme Commander and goguryeo would have lived a lot longer.
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Nalbal
Senior Addict
Yi Young-Nam is mine... live with it.
Posts: 297
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Namseng
Mar 14, 2007 8:15:43 GMT -5
Post by Nalbal on Mar 14, 2007 8:15:43 GMT -5
My opinion is that Namseng and Namgeon (well, at least Namseng) DID love their father very much. Now, it seemed to me that in the earlier episodes, the two brothers weren't really out for all that power; Namgeon thought he'd either stay and help, or just go back to the monestary. Namseng figured that he was the SC, that he gave the orders, and that was that. The way I see it is that it was "Pew" Kwon that got Namseng and Namgeon all revved up with ambition, with desire for sole control. Namgeon, ha! he was just a monk who knew nothing about politics. And Namseng? He was just a foolish young man who wanted to be as great as YGSM; he didn't have a clue as to what he was doing. Again, if "Pew" Kwon had just kept his big nose out of everyone's business, nothing this bad would've happened. Getting back to Namseng, I too feel that he is a tragic figure. He made so many mistakes, but he was also deceived and used by others. "Pew" Kwon was behind the whole conspiracy of making Namgeon #1, and had the king order Namseng's arrest. Namseng was desperate...he felt that he had to cross the border for his own life's sake. His first mistake, though, was going to Tang for help. From then on, the Hong brother who is such a bad influence (his name escapes me), fed him to the teeth with ideas that eventually brought Namseng down completely. What now? Namseng is a dead man no matter where he goes or what he does. If he goes back to his own country, they would kill him. If he tried to escape, but then attempted to return to Tang, they would kill him. Namseng is seriously stuck.
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Namseng
Mar 14, 2007 11:08:06 GMT -5
Post by bowflex on Mar 14, 2007 11:08:06 GMT -5
Nalbal thats how i wanted to explain. I agree with you word from word. You can tell how much namseng loves goguryeo when he trys to stop xei rengui from attacking ansi fort
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Namseng
Mar 14, 2007 17:56:13 GMT -5
Post by BungalowDweller on Mar 14, 2007 17:56:13 GMT -5
Thanks to Bowflex and Truth for providing historical analysis for those of us who are just now beginning to sort out who is who! ;D Books and other references in English about Korean history are sadly lacking.
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Nalbal
Senior Addict
Yi Young-Nam is mine... live with it.
Posts: 297
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Namseng
Mar 15, 2007 17:41:54 GMT -5
Post by Nalbal on Mar 15, 2007 17:41:54 GMT -5
Thanks to Bowflex and Truth for providing historical analysis for those of us who are just now beginning to sort out who is who! ;D Books and other references in English about Korean history are sadly lacking. And your not kidding! Lol, I knew absolutely nothing about Korean history until I started watching "The Immortal Yi Soon Shin" series...and now I'm learning more by watching this series, and reading posts made by people like Truth.
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Namseng
Mar 16, 2007 11:35:18 GMT -5
Post by bowflex on Mar 16, 2007 11:35:18 GMT -5
I started getting into korean history after i watch the show Emperor of the sea. After i watched that show i started to watch more korean dramas mainly ones that concentrate on the history of korea. I wish i watched The Immortal Yi Soon Shin drama series because i heard really good things about it. But thats why they make dvd's, i'm going to get it on dvd after dae joyoung and yeon gaseumon is over. Anyways, i fell sorry for namseng because i do understand his mindset. "if something is falling why don't you kill it yourself and build something more bigger." I think thats what he thinking but i don't understand why. If he wanted the some of the civil officials dead why not just have someone assassinate them instead of joining with the enemy. Why not do what yeon gasemun did.......he took matters into his own hands. He killed a king and placed a new king in command by himself. I think the yeon namseng could have done that with bu kiwon.
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Namseng
Mar 16, 2007 12:09:32 GMT -5
Post by ginnycat5 on Mar 16, 2007 12:09:32 GMT -5
If he wanted the some of the civil officials dead why not just have someone assassinate them instead of joining with the enemy. Why not do what yeon gasemun did.......he took matters into his own hands. He killed a king and placed a new king in command by himself. I think the yeon namseng could have done that with bu kiwon. That's what I was hoping would happen. Mayn times I felt like reaching thru the screen and -well, better not go there. Or couldn't the court officials have been charged with a crime? They must have some enemies among the servants, or didn't the testimony of servants have any weight?
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Namseng
Mar 16, 2007 13:31:01 GMT -5
Post by BungalowDweller on Mar 16, 2007 13:31:01 GMT -5
I agree with you both--but could it be that if Namseng did that it would trigger some kind of clan war--like a gang rumble? Historians---were there such things as clan wars/battles?
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Namseng
Mar 17, 2007 11:51:09 GMT -5
Post by bowflex on Mar 17, 2007 11:51:09 GMT -5
I think thats why Yang Manchun would say that we need peace between the warriors and the civil officials to have a stronger country. But when Namseng went to Ansi fort to talk to dae joyoung and his father why didn't he tell them that bu kiwon was behind the death of Yang Manchun. If he would have that all are dreams would have came true and bu kiwon would have been killed. I'm not positive about the clan war thing but do you remember when yeon gaesumon killed the gogueryeo king and put a new king to the throne himself. I think Namseng would be following in his footsteps if he kills the high commisioner and placed a new person in that position.
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Namseng
Mar 18, 2007 19:42:12 GMT -5
Post by moreshige2 on Mar 18, 2007 19:42:12 GMT -5
Thanks to Bowflex and Truth for providing historical analysis for those of us who are just now beginning to sort out who is who! ;D Books and other references in English about Korean history are sadly lacking. And your not kidding! Lol, I knew absolutely nothing about Korean history until I started watching "The Immortal Yi Soon Shin" series...and now I'm learning more by watching this series, and reading posts made by people like Truth. hey nabal, just curious. where did you get the poem on your sig. ? i remember posting that very same poem by Yi sun shin on this forum awhile back. Great poem isn't it ?
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Nalbal
Senior Addict
Yi Young-Nam is mine... live with it.
Posts: 297
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Namseng
Mar 20, 2007 8:16:10 GMT -5
Post by Nalbal on Mar 20, 2007 8:16:10 GMT -5
hey nabal, just curious. where did you get the poem on your sig. ? i remember posting that very same poem by Yi sun shin on this forum awhile back. Great poem isn't it ? I only steal from the best ;D ! A couple of weeks ago I was browsing the Yi Soon Shin forum, and I stumbled across your post that had the poem. I thought it was so wonderful I just wanted to "carry" it around with me! Did you translate it? Hope I didn't offend you by using it ...sorry I didn't ask you first. Also, can you tell me where I can read more Yi Soon Shin poetry in English?
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Namseng
Mar 20, 2007 22:18:31 GMT -5
Post by bowflex on Mar 20, 2007 22:18:31 GMT -5
I started likeing Namseng more since he joined Tang. You can see how much he actually loves his country even though he's helping destroy it. It was awesome when he secretly let go Dae Joyoung.
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Namseng
Mar 21, 2007 10:53:37 GMT -5
Post by ginnycat5 on Mar 21, 2007 10:53:37 GMT -5
He hasn't done anything to help destroy it yet, tho, has he? Except defect and spoil morale. Sheesh, he would have been the chief military commander if Bu Kiwon hadn't puffed up and ensnared his brother to compete with him. So sad.
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