General at Ogol Fort

[BungalowDweller]

Was this true? Maybe I missed it but I don't understand how Bu Kiwon and his horde got this General to be complicit in the murder of the Commander, Yang Munchan (sp???)

Why would he turn like that? It doesn't make any sense. And the scene of DJY and the others standing over the General's body was too long. And unbelievable as well. They themselves are about to be wiped out and they are lingering like they've got all day.

Was Bu Kiwon so full of hubris that he actually thought that he could hold back Tang by Diplomacy? What a creep!

I liked the end of the episode with Xui Rengui, Mr. Featherduster. That's reality and warfare. Modern "diplomats" could take a page from this. They talk and talk and talk and talk and are active in selling out their nation. No one listens to the warriors in the theatre. Nobody. And if people in the States think that the Walter Reed mess just started they need to get their heads examined. The abuse of warriors at the hands of pols is an ancient problem. There is truly nothing new under the sun.

[BungalowDweller]

And another thing---Surely one of Bu Kiwon's soldiers was killed. Didn't the general kill a bunch of them before he died? Those dead bodies around the murdered General should be enough to identify the perpetrators. If Bu Kiwon used his private militia those men should be easily traced back to himself. Or were they all from Ogol Fort? It strains credibility that it is unknown who did what. Is this historically accurate? I hope that we don't have 4 or 5 episodes centering around, "Gee, who could have done this?" I want to see the Bu Kiwon torture episode soon! ;D

[Truth]

bungalowdweller said:

And another thing---Surely one of Bu Kiwon's soldiers was killed. Didn't the general kill a bunch of them before he died? Those dead bodies around the murdered General should be enough to identify the perpetrators. If Bu Kiwon used his private militia those men should be easily traced back to himself. Or were they all from Ogol Fort? It strains credibility that it is unknown who did what. Is this historically accurate? I hope that we don't have 4 or 5 episodes centering around, "Gee, who could have done this?" I want to see the Bu Kiwon torture episode soon! ;D

How Yang Manchun died in the drama is not accurate as the general at Ogol fort is not a real person, hell, even Bu Kiwon is not a real person. And yes, Sa Bugu is also a fictional character.

Yang Manchun dies during Koguryo's final war against Tang in real history. I think they just made him get killed by Bu Kiwon to make people cry and raise ratings.

[ginnycat5]

bungalowdweller said:

And another thing---Surely one of Bu Kiwon's soldiers was killed. Didn't the general kill a bunch of them before he died? Those dead bodies around the murdered General should be enough to identify the perpetrators. If Bu Kiwon used his private militia those men should be easily traced back to himself. Or were they all from Ogol Fort? It strains credibility that it is unknown who did what. Is this historically accurate? I hope that we don't have 4 or 5 episodes centering around, "Gee, who could have done this?" I want to see the Bu Kiwon torture episode soon! ;D

Oh, you are so right. I didn't think of the bodies as evidence. The guards or commander at Ogol Fort weren't in any hurry to open the gates. I guess they were worried about being blamed.

That terrible thug Sa Bugol (?) killed the general, and his men, but was it set up so they looked like they were killed defending Yang Manchun? DJY and Galsabiwu saw the murder scene. They should remember how it looked. It was dark, tho, and they were stressed.

Gen. Yang's guards were drugged-if they were killed too, then there's no evidence of the treachery.

[BungalowDweller]

Thanks for the post, Truth! As a non-Korean I appreciate any knowledge about the actual events. As my kid says, "You rock!"

[bowflex]

I havn't seen that episode yet.....thats the next episode. What makes me mad is that bu kiwon keeps on saying its for the people its for the people but the people sacrificed there lives for yang manchun to stay alive. I hope its true that in the history books yang manchun died in the last war because bu kiwon would be the man to blame for the fall of goguryeo. Plus, with all those guards i can't see how he made it into the fort and into his room without anyone noticing especially with dae joyoung and that cool guy gulsabiwu

[Truth]

bowflex said:

I havn't seen that episode yet.....thats the next episode. What makes me mad is that bu kiwon keeps on saying its for the people its for the people but the people sacrificed there lives for yang manchun to stay alive. I hope its true that in the history books yang manchun died in the last war because bu kiwon would be the man to blame for the fall of goguryeo. Plus, with all those guards i can't see how he made it into the fort and into his room without anyone noticing especially with dae joyoung and that cool guy gulsabiwu

Bu Kiwon is a fictional character.

[BungalowDweller]

Bu Kiwon is a composite character--he represents certain attitudes held by some at the time.

And I agree about his invoking "the people". One continues to hear such drivel today. I detest it when politicians and other elites evoke "the People" as reasons to raise taxes, squelch personal freedom, etc. The truth is, the people are the farthest thing from their minds. And it's always the richest and most powerful among them that call upon the rest of us to sacrifice for the "greater good". A sacrifice that they themselves and their powerful friends never make but from which they most assuredly will benefit. It's the height of chicanery--now as well as back then.

Whenever I hear any elites talking about what they're going to "do" for me, (especially when it involves redistribution of wealth--mine of course, never their own! ) I understand it to mean what they're going to do To me and I know it's time to run for the exit! ;D

"In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other." Voltiare (1764)

[zorro]

The assasination episode was pretty disappointing to me.

First off, only *one* of the three of DJY Gulsa, or Gom should have gone to go meet Haek Sudol at the gate. The other two should have stayed with the General at all times.

Second, while arguing with Sudol at the gate, (wasting more precious time) DJY pronounces the General must be in danger, but then takes what seemed a half hour to return to the attack scene while Sa Bugu was gloating endlessly at Yang Manchun *after* someone else had literally stabbed him in the back. I kept waiting for DJY to burst into the room and at least identify the perps if he was too late to fight them off.

Third, Sa Bugu comes across as some sort of brilliant nemesis, when up to now he's just been a Bu Kiwon yes man. Also, I don't like either of these Shin brothers, who seem to be pulling a lot of the strings to put all these plans in motion.

It always surprises me how all the camps seem to know what each other is doing at the moment it happens, but everyone in this episode including DJY, Gulsa, and Gom were CLUELESS… I guess I've become accustomed to DJ always coming to the rescue.

[ajk]

You make a very good point—there should have been some back-story to support the Ogol incident. It certainly would have been possible to give us some plausible reason for Ogol turning on YM; the general could have had a long history with civil officials, maybe even been related to one; or there could have been friction between YGSM or YM and Ogol that caused resentment throughout the fort; or whatever other kind of story might have been concocted to lay the groundwork. But some kind of groundwork definitely should have been laid, because like you say, it came out of nowhere and wasn’t very satisfying.

About the bodies, yes YM did knock off a few soldiers, but by the time DJY got there the only thing in that hallway was the sword lying next to YM’s body with YM’s blood on it. So the civil troops cleaned up the incriminating evidence, which they would have been expected to do. But again, the storyline should have been more explicit about it rather than just leave all of those questions hanging. With so many episodes to fill and only the basic sketches of historical fact, you’d think they’d be bending over backwards to take the time to flesh these things out, but they sure didn’t in these episodes.

The one thing I’d disagree with you about is Xue Rengui’s treatment of the civil emissary. The emissary was acting as a messenger. A messenger should never be treated that way, regardless of whether or not the message fits any individual’s political views. I thought it was a very poor ending to the episode because it was a classless, repulsive act by someone who had shown great honor to the point of being tortured rather than betray his kinsmen. I don’t know if you watched IYSS, but even Wakizaka did not harm IYSS’ messenger when the messenger sailed right into Japanese HQ with a box full of severed Japanese soldier heads. I know, different show, but it’s just a matter of basic civility and Xue blew it.

The thing that most bothered me about this week’s episodes was Heuk Sedol’s apparent reinstatement with no consequences after springing Namseng, which nearly got YM executed and started a civil war. Talk about needing an explanation!

[Nalbal]

bowflex said:

.....Plus, with all those guards i can't see how he made it into the fort and into his room without anyone noticing......

It really IS unbelievable that any of that could have happened without someone noticing; it happened in a large fort, and surely there were some uninvolved people that could have noticed something strange going on. I guess my biggest question is "Where was everybody??" I mean, I'm sure that there were some Ogol soldiers somewhere that had nothing to do with the plot, and were just doing their jobs...didn't anyone notice that could have lived to tell the tale? I find it highly unlikely that Bu Kiwon's men killed everyone that wasn't involved.

[bowflex]

When it comes to most people.....when you have power you want more power. I think thats how bu kiwon is in the show. What i like so much about this show is it show's you the fall of gogureyo. Its sad to see how such a powerful country got to where they are today. Same thing happened to rome and the same thing will probably happened to America. There will be always someone that will mess things up