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Post by BAE on Jan 30, 2007 14:09:51 GMT -5
Well as my message icon states for this thread, I really don't know what to think about this guy. Repeatedly throughout the show so far, it's been specifically implied that he's a Great Hero of the Goguryo era and that he's brave and honorable, but lately, I think that side of his persona seems to have escaped him. I can't really tell whether this guy, in the drama (seeing as to a lot of things that occured in history have been adapted for the show), is a good guy or not. I wonder if he'll be able to redeem himself or if he'll end up dying from this devestating ailment that seems to have caused all the trouble in the first place? It would be a pity if the writer had a downfall in store for this character because he really seems like he's everything history has made him out to be (I think the actor is fantastic, BTW ;D), and then there's THIS side. This vulnerable... can't quite describe it side that is making him act like a lunatic. But highlight of last night's episode: Namseng getting the daylight slapped out of him by Yang ManChun. priceless.
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Post by ginnycat5 on Jan 30, 2007 16:30:52 GMT -5
Do you think his mind is unbalanced by blood poisoning or something? He's paranoid and irrational. He collapses regularly yet wants to go on a campaign against Tang. He thinks Yang Manchun wants to kill him just because Yang disagrees about invading Tang. It's surprising that he doesn't just keep sliding toward death but has periods of moving around normally.
I loved the smack-down of Namseng!! And none of his men disagreed! ;D
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Post by BAE on Jan 30, 2007 16:51:16 GMT -5
Maybe ginny. Let's all just blame his current disposition on blood poisoning. Maybe it's just dying without getting "rid of" Tang that's REALLY bothering YGSM. He doesn't want his country to go on without another great leader like himself with Tang as a potential threat always, maybe?
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Post by JP Paulus on Jan 30, 2007 17:28:45 GMT -5
Well, there's definitely the paralell with King Goongyae in Emperor Wang Guhn, who was a good leader, but then got hurt in a similar way, and also went off the deep end.
i have been trying to get a handle on YGSM myself, as he sways between good guy & hot head. i think in his younger years, he was a passionate warrior, but Yang Manchun helped balance YGSM out and make him a good leader.
His ilness and his age have warped his thinkng, as well as the thought of immeninet death without his last major goal of conquering Tang...they showed that as a point of agreement between YGSM & Yang Manchun earlier in the drama. Obviously circumstances have changed, and so Yang Manchun doesn't think it's the right time. But YGSM might want to have one final stab at his legacy (kinda like Li Shimin trying to conquer Goguryeo).
For me...i wonder how much this parallels Koreans' lives today. Like with all the behind the scenes drama with KBS management over the years....are the two connected?
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Post by zorro on Jan 30, 2007 17:38:09 GMT -5
I think he's hallucinating from his injury. Even though the last couple episodes have been a little over the top, I want to believe they're trying to emphasize how extrordinary a warrior he was. Remember Shin remarked how he *should* have died long ago from his wound, but was so mentally strong. Amazing to me was 5 arrows from his bow… 5 dead soldiers. They all die, but he survives the same injury. As he himself might say: "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!" I was afraid he was going to die at any moment, especially when he wandered into the scene with The Tang General that had already died. Li Shima? Anyhow, that was a great scene. At episode's end, he even sees Yang Manchun as the Tang general, so he definitely is fighting some demons. It was *so* cool when YM smacked "Sonny" down. Bae put it perfect. That Yang certainly has a set on him. I also wonder how DJY is the *only* one who can essentially talk back to YGSM and get away with it. I love how that gets under Namseng and his henchman's skin. Can't wait til tonight, but I hope they get Li Haigu and Chulin back in the story. They make things interesting.
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Post by moreshige2 on Jan 31, 2007 1:58:53 GMT -5
Yongaesomun to me was a controversial figure much like the assassinated President Park Chung Hee. They were both hated and loved at the same time. This drama did not get into how YGSM got to power in the first place: it was through a bloody coup.... He dethroned (murdered) the king and established the king's younger brother (the king you see in this drama). What followed was essentially a dictatorship under YGSM.
Notice how the king in the drama seemed like he had no power? That's because he had to live with the fact that YGSM could dispose of him at any time. The king is really just a figurehead at this point.
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Post by zorro on Jan 31, 2007 9:37:31 GMT -5
I hope the actor that played him won an award for an outstanding performance. His presence dominates the screen. His last conversations with Yang Manchun and DJY were both very moving for such a gruff character.
I'm guessing he died in the year 663, but they never say how old any of them are. Any idea of people's lifespans back then?
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Post by BAE on Jan 31, 2007 11:05:03 GMT -5
i have been trying to get a handle on YGSM myself, as he sways between good guy & hot head. i think in his younger years, he was a passionate warrior, but Yang Manchun helped balance YGSM out and make him a good leader. His ilness and his age have warped his thinkng, as well as the thought of immeninet death without his last major goal of conquering Tang...But YGSM might want to have one final stab at his legacy (kinda like Li Shimin trying to conquer Goguryeo). Very well stated, JP. It seems like YGSM is this really ardent, tactful soldier and Yang ManChun seems quite the opposite: calm, reserved. They both seem to have a fire water relationship, balancing each other out quite well. It was quite the scene watching the two of them clear their misunderstandings. YGSM really meant no harm with what all he did. It's simply unfortunate that he passed away without fulfilling what he set out to. They managed to win the latest war, but they didn't per se "destroy" Tang. I wonder what the state will do now. Maybe they'll show more of the king being a KING? He really has the least to do in the show. The Empress of Tang gets more done. Yongaesomun to me was a controversial figure much like the assassinated President Park Chung Hee. They were both hated and loved at the same time. This drama did not get into how YGSM got to power in the first place: it was through a bloody coup.... He dethroned (murdered) the king and established the king's younger brother (the king you see in this drama). What followed was essentially a dictatorship under YGSM. He does look like the dictator type. Too bad that passed on to Namseng.
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Post by BAE on Jan 31, 2007 11:12:07 GMT -5
I think he's hallucinating from his injury. Even though the last couple episodes have been a little over the top, I want to believe they're trying to emphasize how extrordinary a warrior he was. Remember Shin remarked how he *should* have died long ago from his wound, but was so mentally strong. Amazing to me was 5 arrows from his bow… 5 dead soldiers. They all die, but he survives the same injury. As he himself might say: "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!" I also wonder how DJY is the *only* one who can essentially talk back to YGSM and get away with it. I love how that gets under Namseng and his henchman's skin. Can't wait til tonight, but I hope they get Li Haigu and Chulin back in the story. They make things interesting. SO RIGHT, zorro. ;D YGSM is one of my favorite characters from any historical drama so far. The actor superbly portrayed this fiery warrior of Goguryeo. Watching those arrows of "terror" rain down on those men was a bit terrifying if you can picture yourself in that scene. He really did have full command of his realm, the battlefield. His will to survive essentially is what allowed him to make peace with Yang ManChun and Dae Jo Young. If he had passed away long before, he would've died with resentment and a deep sense of aversion. This way, he regained some of the honor he was seemingly losing due to his doubts and suspicious behavior. Also, going back to Shim Hong... What's the deal with this guy anyway? Can't really figure out what he's up to exactly. He gives me the creeps everytime I look at him. He's too silent, as if he's cooking up a storm. Well, one thing's for sure, he's got Nam-seng in his clutches. I actually don't really like the actor playing Kaigu. I've watched him in quite a few dramas and always thought that he was a poor actor. It's disappointing to see him play Kaigu, who I envision to be a sort of tough guy. I'm guessing he died in the year 663, but they never say how old any of them are. Any idea of people's lifespans back then? Wiki says this: 'The most likely date of Yeon's death is that recorded on the tomb stele of Namsaeng, Yeon Gaesomun's eldest son: the twenty-fourth year of the reign of Bojang (665). However, the Samguk Sagi records the year as 666, and the Japanese history Nihonshoki gives the year as the twenty-third year of the reign of King Bojang (664).' So, he was around 63 when he died, which was apparently due to 'natural causes'.
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Post by Knov1 on Jan 31, 2007 15:26:07 GMT -5
I hope the actor that played him won an award for an outstanding performance. His presence dominates the screen. His last conversations with Yang Manchun and DJY were both very moving for such a gruff character. He did. He's the only actor from DJY to win an award at the 2006 KBS Drama Awards but that's mostly because the drama isn't even halfway in Korea. I'm sure other actors from the drama will be awarded for their performances at next year's awards.
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Post by zorro on Feb 1, 2007 10:35:34 GMT -5
That's good analysis about YGSM regaining his honor BAE. You look way deeper into the psyches of these characters. I feel lucky if I can keep up with the subtitles. I guessed 663 as the year of his death because in the story they narrated that "in the year 666, three years after his death" etc. etc. If he was 63, that would have been quite a lifespan considering the conditions and his occupation. If General Xue hadn't gotten lucky with that arrow, he might have lived at least another 10 years. Knov1: Thanks for that info. He's most deserving.
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Post by BAE on Feb 1, 2007 13:53:10 GMT -5
LOL, zorro. I can't keep up with most of the subtitles either, but the acting is so good, the message gets across one way or the other. Side Question: Did the guy playing Choi Jangsoo from Invisible Man get nominated for a KBS Drama Award?
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Post by ginnycat5 on Feb 1, 2007 16:36:31 GMT -5
Quote from Bae:
Also, going back to Shim Hong... What's the deal with this guy anyway? Can't really figure out what he's up to exactly. He gives me the creeps everytime I look at him. He's too silent, as if he's cooking up a storm. Well, one thing's for sure, he's got Nam-seng in his clutches.
If Shim Hong is the one played by the actor who was the creepy traitor in Yi Shin Soon, he wants revenge against General Dae and DJY both, because his master was caught being a traitor (and was he killed?). He's in a trusted place now, having saved YGSM's son. Who is Kaigu?
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Post by BAE on Feb 1, 2007 17:36:31 GMT -5
Ooohhh, thanks Ginny. He went around talking about "master...revenge" and stuff, but I didn't really get it. His master was General DJS's friend, but he became a rebel because he didn't want to go to war with Tang. But, his friend realized he'd done wrong and got unknowing General DJS to kill him. Lee Haego or Li Kaigu is this guy: . He is the guy that tried to kill YGSM.
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Post by JP Paulus on Feb 2, 2007 11:05:55 GMT -5
Guys -- if we are talking about a particular episode -- either put the ep # in the title (if you start the thread, or let me know by PM or separate thread. i just realized it after reading through this thread. It's a good discussion, so i don't want to stop it---but don't want to spoil those who are behind.
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