Seoul 1945/Opinion

[carolvan]

Hello to everyone on this board. I am in the Philadelphia area and have
followed Korean Historical Dramas for a couple of years now.. It began with AOW episode 98, how I wished I found it earlier! Finished that one, got totally hooked, bought EOTS online while YSS just started.
EOTS was devoured, YSS was getting great and then I ordered Dae Jang Geum and blew through that! (Yes, can you see a trend here?)

Onto Seoul 1945, I did not know what to expect from this show. The whole political subject made me uneasy for many reasons. Initially based on history we learn in the US it could be perceived about communism and anti communism doing battle. However it is a four fold battle, communism, anti-communism, Japanese and Korean forces at play. This makes for a very interesting show. As an American conditioned to understand certain things, it is easy to
become uncomfortable rooting for the "bad guys", the commies as it were. Yet, I find myself rooting for the them as the heroes of the show. It is very confusing because we are not supposed to. The emotions of the show run deep and I have seen all but 1 episode.

Basically I am a student of Korean History, I am learning the language and the culture. However it is through its history can you learn of the greatness of the society that has endured hundreds of years of abuses from bigger neighbors. Their abilities, their knowledge base, their enlightened society was a serious threat to the surrounding feudal and tyrannous neighbors. So... they had to learn to fight, because they never did. They were like quakers, and believed in a better way. Then one day they realized, without warriors (and weaponry) to defend ourselves our society will be gone. They realized, because they were not Chinese, or Japanese,
that they were of Kogoryo ancestry that they must preserve their ancestry or it would be erased from the history books altogether by virtue of numbers. Thus they became also the "hermit kingdom". Okay with, we are Korean, you are not and that is okay with us. Just don't make us like you. History is everything to the Koreans, also, their elders; to this day, Koreans treat their elders with a respect that is unlike most other societies. It is a shame, I think.

Anyway, Seoul 1945 is VERY different from the other KHDs, but yet it is not. I wasn't sure if I would follow it or not because I didn't think it would be relevant to learning about Korea. I was wrong.
In understanding further, (after IYSS) the continued hatred of the Japanese to this day; Seoul 1945 sheds some "modern" light on the subject. It was only 60 years ago, after all!

This Chicago board helped me along since I started watching all of these shows, so I am offering some help back. I plan on continuing to follow Seoul 1945 and am going to buy IYSS on DVD, now that it is out. I still want to see the first 100 episodes of Age of Warriors,
maybe the local PBS will run it again..... Thank you for posting my feedback and for being there...

[kiparang]

Welcome to the board, carolvan. What a perceptive posting! I am proud to be a member of this board, where I get to meet people from all walks of life and frequently read intelligent postings like this.

[kathleen unlogged]

wow! thank you for your post carolvan. I've been feeling very confused and a big guilty for 'siding' with the communists ... the elements in this story are fascinating. I'm always pro-Korean and also recognize that the Japanese occupation is playhing havoc on the poorest of the poor.

Please continue to share your perspective .. and welcome to the board

[Lucy]

Thanks for posting, carolvan. I was interested to hear about your guilt, and Kathleen's, for siding with the communists. I can understand how you might feel that way. We are getting a different perspective than we usually are fed. Before I have my say about communism, let me just mention that we naturally sympathize with whoever is the protagonist in a story--for example, in a movie I saw this year about the assassination of the president of Korea, I felt a bit sorry for some of the assassins because I saw the story from their point of view and how they were forced into participating (it would have been dangerous to refuse), but if I had seen it from another perspective, I could have easily been led to think of them all as a bunch of unmitigated villains. (Yes, killing is very wrong, but one of the characters in particular was a sub-normally intelligent, clueless, duty-bound family man who was called in to work on his day off and had no idea there was such a plot before he got there.)

Let me take this opportunity to say I feel no guilt for siding with the communists, because I have always felt that a blanket demonization of communists and communism is out of place. Communism arose for a reason--the very reason you see here: the exploitation of the mass of people by a smaller group of oligarchs. The situation in Russia was horrible for the peasants for hundreds of years. Essentially, they began, lived, and ended their lives having nothing while giving their life's blood to serve people who were already rich. So I can easily see why communism seemed to provide hope for a solution to their problems. They said, "We're the ones doing all the work, and we get nothing for our trouble. We can never get ahead, and we don't have the power to change society. The oligarchs can kill us in cold blood if we protest, and they will never be called to account for it. Our only hope is to organize and try to take the power out of the hands of the few and put it into the hands of the many."

Now, it might not have worked out so well in practice, but that's not the fault of communism per se. It's the fault of the political leaders who perverted the idea into just another way to garner and consolidate power and continue to exploit the people. The same thing can happen in any political-economic system: monarchy, capitalism, communism, etc.

It is easy to see the promise of a system that created a chance for people who had not a hope in hell of ever having anything of their own. They believed that if they could take back the means of production (in our current example, the copper mine) and put it into the control of the workers (like Oon-hyuk's sister and the young men under Mr. Moon), their exploitation would end. And that's why I've never understood the need to make communists into "evil" "enemies" of everything we supposedly hold dear. It's good to question whatever version of history we have been taught, and that's one reason why I'm enjoying "Seoul 1945" so much.

[florel]

I'm glad to meet the thoughtful and intelligent members in this forum. I have some words on my part.


The scenarists deliberately concentrate on love stuffs in order to avoid ideological debates. Though, they have been attacked by extreme right wings. If they wrote this drama twenty years ago, they certainly would have been imprisoned under the pretext of violation of National Security Law.

I don't think it's a Pal Gaeng Yi (- perjorative appellation of Red communist) drama as the extreme right wings think. It's rather on moderate left wing side. For example, the character of Choi Oon-hyuk is inspired from Yi Gang-guk (1906-1955), northern Korean political man and lover of Kim Su-Im (who is a model of Kehee). In real history, Yi Gang-guk was a partisan of Park Huh-young, radical communist leader. He was purged, along with Park, by Kim Il-sung after the end of the Korean War. In the drama, Oon-hyuk is not Park's man and I don't know yet if he will survive or not until the end of the drama.


This drama itself shows how Soth Korean society have changed. After the fall of Soviet regime, almost of everyone know communism is a failed system (despite of its initial ideal) and South Korean society is being liberated from the communist fear even though we have problems yet with Nothern religious fanatics - the Kim Il-sung-ists. These guys even don't deserve to be called as communists.


When I watched this drama, I continously thought : "Can we embrace the Northerners as our brothers and sisters when Korea will be united again ?" South Koreans oppose to any war in the peninsula because we know violence cannot resolve any problem. The Korean War proved it. It did, on the contrary, deepen the hatred between two camps.

A part of South Koreans start to try to think from the viewpoint of the others' part. But the unification seems to be a remote future yet. The international situations are not favorable to it and North Koreans don't seem to try to understand Southerners' view point.

[skinz]

lucy said:

Now, it might not have worked out so well in practice, but that's not the fault of communism per se. It's the fault of the political leaders who perverted the idea into just another way to garner and consolidate power and continue to exploit the people. The same thing can happen in any political-economic system: monarchy, capitalism, communism, etc.

Preach, Lucy, preach on.

Communism the theory is not evil its the political leaders that destroyed its principles. Look how communism itself threathen capitalist countries simply because it gave light to something else other than capitalism, Anything that seperate itself from the current structure will be demonized to no end.

Karl Marx principle wasn't even complete so the idea is not the problem, IMO, its leaders taking it out of context that creates the unnecessary problems.

I bet I'll be called a commie by someone


Hi Florel,

I still think it could happen, however, the Kim Il-sung-ists (as you call them) are just too busy trying to get international recognition than to see the south viewpoint or anybody viewpoints for that matter.

[Lucy]

Look how communism itself threathen capitalist countries simply because it gave light to something else other than capitalism, Anything that seperate itself from the current structure will be demonized to no end.

And you preach on, too, comrade. Or should I call you "Comrade Skinz-sky?"

I love your crazy picture and tagline.

Wouldn't it be great if dramas could help reunification in their way? It sounds crazy in a way, but popular culture can influence peoples' feelings and acceptance of others. Of course, the problems behind reunification are way more difficult than just wanting to do it, but if anyone is afraid of communists, things like this drama might help their understanding.

I agree that Oon-hyuk is not ideological, at least not at this point (episode 12). He's pretty much been dragged along with the communist Master Moon (how ironic that that's his title right now) because of the things he did for humanitarian reasons. Now, of course, he's walking down that path and who knows how radical he's going to become.

[florel]

Hi, comrade Skinz-sky (haha, Lucy, what a naming sense !)

You can call me Comrade Florelska. ;D

Is Seoul 1945 also airing in NY/NJ ?





Chinese soldiers in Seoul 1945




It seems that K-dramas are also getting popularity in North Korea. A while ago, I read some news articles saying that Kim Jung-Il was a fan of The Immortal Yi Soon-shin. It's also well known fact that he likes Southern dramas and movies. But he prohibits them to his people.


You can read an article published in NYT about K-drama vogue in North Korea. In order to read the whole article, you have to be registered. I only can bring its summary.


www.nytimes.com/2005/03/15/international/asia/15north.html

How Electronics Are Penetrating North Korea's Isolation

March 15, 2005, Tuesday
By JAMES BROOKE (NYT); Foreign Desk
Late Edition - Final, Section A, Page 3, Column 1, 1441 words


DISPLAYING ABSTRACT - Consumer electronics introduce new ways of thinking into North Korea, perhaps corroding steely controls on ideology and information that have kept Kim family in power for almost 60 years; defectors from North Korea say that construction of cellular relay stations last fall along Chinese side of border allows some North Koreans in border towns to use prepaid Chinese cellphones to call relatives and reporters in South Korea; after DVD players swept northern China two years ago, entrepreneurs collected castoff videocassette recorders and peddled them to North Korea; tapes of South Korean soap operas are popular...



- florelska

[KyungDaeDoo]

Fascinating thread. Keep up the great posts. We really need an extended gathering in Chicago where we can not only see an episode or two together, but so we can discuss this stuff. I am admittedly a novice to KHD's but I love them! And I am also new to cheering for communists. Thanks, Carolvan, for verbalizing that 'feeling'. You guys make me realize how much I have to learn!

[Lucy]

Let's make a new cheer to be used for Seoul 1945. C'mon, get it out of your system, it'll feel good! You can use it every time Oon-hyuk eludes the law.

GO, COMMIES, GO! AJA, COMMIES, AJA! HWAITING!!!
GooooOOOOO, COMMIES!

Tee-hee!

[FlowerLady]

Hello, all-- I'm also watching this drama. I have been missing the "traditional" type of historic K-dramas (AOW, YSS, DJG, etc.), but I am enjoying 1945 so far. It is complex and emotional, but I also like the "sweeping epic" feel of it, too. The character development of the lead roles have captured my interest the most, especially Oon-Hyuk and Kehee.

[moreshige2]

I'm so happy for all of you! such great comments! I really wish you guys had seen "Dawn of the Pupil". It's set in the same era KHD as Seoul 1945, but more sweeping and epic-like. Unfortunately, it was shown in 1990-91. I would say it was one of the greatest KHD's I've ever seen next to IYSS, Moreshige (hourglass) and AOW.

Also with "Dawn of the Pupil" you'll see the plight of comfort women, forced korean labor during the occupation, the indepenence movements both in China and Korea, Japanese human experiments during WII, individual ordinary japanese who were much a victim of the times as anyone else, the theme of corrupt Koreans who sold out to the Japanese or those Koreans who were ruthless regardless of ideology, dissolutionment, the internal and often tragic conflicts that led to the Korean war, great battle scenes and of course a love triangle...

I think Seoul 1945 is trying to capture some of "Dawn of the Pupil's tragic, emotionally heart wrenching dramatic formula. It was based on a series of books, I think. But to be fair, that period in time was very tragic....

We also get a sense of why Koreans have a deep hatred of Japanese....it doesn't stem from just the imjin wars. Rather, its more like saying its been going on since the imjin wars....From reading other forums, I get this sense that foreigners who live in Korea don't understand this obesssion with the Japanese. I would agree with them to a certain point but they have no idea....

[florel]

lucy said:

Let's make a new cheer to be used for Seoul 1945. C'mon, get it out of your system, it'll feel good! You can use it every time Oon-hyuk eludes the law.

GO, COMMIES, GO! AJA, COMMIES, AJA! HWAITING!!!
GooooOOOOO, COMMIES!

Tee-hee!

The Commie on cellphone

[Lucy]

The cell phone is a tool of the capitalist exploiters! Purge him!



That Oon-hyuk has a fabulous head of hair. No wonder I'm attracted to him.

[florel]

I finished the last two episodes of "Seoul 1945". Definitively, it's a good drama and worth to see until the last episode. In another thread, I told that it didn't reach to the height of "Pupul of the Dawn". But the "Pupil" is a legendary drama, certainly one of top five among K-dramas.

"Seoul 1945" had some novelties, because it pointed out the problem of Pro-Japanese collaborators and re-evaluated a neglected political leader, Mong-yang. But it's not limited on the political issues. IMO, the drama is telling more than about politics and ideologies. It shows value conflicts : between family and ideology/politics, love and family, love and ideology, individual and group, love and friendship, power and love, etc. etc.

It's possible that the long twisted love triangle (or quadriangle) would make you mad. Hopefully you would be able to endure it. ;D It was interesting (and funny) to see that many Korean TV viewers have been more inflammed about love stories than political stuffs.

The main characters have their models in history. But, the dramatists only take some motives and the drama heroes are very different from real historical personnages. For example, Kim Su-Im (Ke-hee's model) was engaged to an American officer. But, as we saw in Episodes 1 and 2, Ke-hee's fiance was a Korean officer of US Army Intelligence. So we cannot predict our heroes' destinies, because they are dependant upon the writers, not upon history.

lucy said:

The cell phone is a tool of the capitalist exploiters! Purge him!

HAHAHAHA

lucy said:

That Oon-hyuk has a fabulous head of hair. No wonder I'm attracted to him.

Lucy, you're my rival. Oon-hyuk also get my heart. ;D