generaldu
Senior Addict
The subway charms us so, where balmy breezes blow, to and fro. - Lorenz Hart - "Manhattan"
Posts: 312
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Post by generaldu on Apr 8, 2005 17:15:27 GMT -5
Actually I'm 27 years old so today's game is all I've ever known. Forgive me for trying to make a point in rather obtuse fashion. The most well run and successful professional sports organization in the U.S. is the NFL. Baseball is America's passtime, but Football is and has been America's favorite sport for at least a generation now. I pose this: profit sharing has played a significant role in the assencion of pro football. It has contributed to a greater competitive element than is enjoyed by any of the other 2 and 1/2 (hockey=1/2) major sports. To institute profit sharing in MLB now would be disastrous for and somewhat unfair to the Yankees organization. Having said that, the institution of profit sharing within MLB would be the best thing to happen to the sport and to MLB in the modern era. Baseball would have been best served by doing this in the 70's at the same time as the NFL (and it wouldn't have been as damaging to the Yankee's at that point either). I agree that the Yankee's should spend the money that they have (they print their own after all, don't they ). For them to be in the position to triple and quadruple other teams payrolls is not proper in the competitive arena. I know that many will disagree with me: "The Yanks bring in that money so they should be able to spend it." Remember Yankees/Giants/Jets fans... if the NFL were run that way we'd be talking about the superpower Cowboys and Raider nations, not just the Yankees in Baseball. While the NFL may be a successful business because of a number of demographic factors the actual sport of football is in tatters with mediocrity being the norm outside of The Patriots franchise. Other than Tom Brady anyone will be hard pressed someday to name the winning superbowl quarterbacks of this era because free agency and the salary cap have destroyed team continuity throughout the sport of football. Jerry Jones and Al Davis have self destructed and would continue to do so even if they were left in charge of the mint. The Yankees already make money for any other team they play because they drive up the gate receipts as a visiting team. While I would not oppose some revenue sharing one has to do something about slumlord owners who hustle municipalities for freebies, rake in cable revenue, etc. and then give nothing to the fans. Even allowing for the odious steroid issue (and the fact that nobody can play the outfield anymore) the game of baseball today features a number of players, teams and managers who rank highly among the all time greats and the fine postseason action of recent years attests to this. The Yankees were dominant when they were miserly (as they were for most all of their history) and have been very competitive through the spendthrift Steinbrenner era. In the same market the beloved Brooklyn Dodgers won one title and the New York Giants won a handful before abandoning their fans for the promised riches of the West Coast. So considering The Yankees are still here entertaining their fans despite the many ups and downs I guess the question occurrs to me, what do Yankee haters really hate?
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Post by MasterCrabby on Apr 8, 2005 19:40:00 GMT -5
My feeling is that there is no hatred, in general. I have wondered similarly about animosity between the White Sox and Cubs. The Red Sox have the misfortune of having been just good enough to have been thwarted by the Yankees more times than other teams in similar situations, and had to sit and watch them go on to win Championships numerous times. It is the proximity of this torment that has anguished Red Sox fans through the years. So it's not really hatred, I don't think. Am I right, Seven Stars? At least in Chicago, no one has won anything important often enough to develop a Red Sox style complex. Seven Stars, how has the view of Boston fans toward the Yankees changed now that they won the World Series? GeneralDu-- I must say many Yankee fans have been livid about the way things went last year. What do you think? By the way, I'll throw in Leicester with Dempster and raise you the cheese sandwich--recently made, even.
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Post by luvarchfiend on Apr 9, 2005 0:11:03 GMT -5
well i think the yankees are hated because of their excess of success. nobody (except their own fans) likes a team that has that kind of abundance of riches....speaking about the number of championships, not the wealth, but now there is probably that issue too. the other sports team i love, the duke bluedevils men's basketball team, has been experiencing the same phenomenon. when they were struggling, or at best mediocre, no one cared too much one way or another. they have now become the team that has set the standard by which many others are being measured. their success has been rather remarkable and sustained. and with this success has come the same degree of dislike and envy and jealousy that i see around the yankees. and for the record, i have been a fan of these teams through good times and bad, not because of the successes they have earned and enjoyed. now generaldu and mastercrabby, if i had my way, kevin brown wouldn't be traded for a cheese sandwich, i would be looking to pay somebody to take him off my hands. a cheese sandwich, even an old moldy one, would make the trade too one-sided. ;D it just wouldn't be fair to the other party.
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Post by ID on Apr 9, 2005 19:31:35 GMT -5
Yankees are done. The whole steroid thing is making people realise that the "best players" really aren't what they seem to be.
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Post by seven stars on Apr 9, 2005 21:33:37 GMT -5
Generaldu, I assure you that I do not hate the Yankee's, the Yankee players, or the Yankee fans. Nor do I fault you for taking up the defense of your team. I would love them to death if I were a Yankee fan. I only hate the state of affairs in baseball when it endorses unfair advantages in the game. They did nothing about steroids because the homeruns brought back the fans after the post-strike popularity dip, and they do nothing about the unfair Yankee advantage because (as you said Generaldu) they sell tickets everywhere they go. It's important to note that they would still sell tickets everywhere even if there was profit sharing in MLB, so that point in itself does not negate the validity of my earlier post. My feeling is that there is no hatred, in general. I have wondered similarly about animosity between the White Sox and Cubs. The Red Sox have the misfortune of having been just good enough to have been thwarted by the Yankees more times than other teams in similar situations, and had to sit and watch them go on to win Championships numerous times. It is the proximity of this torment that has anguished Red Sox fans through the years. So it's not really hatred, I don't think. Am I right, Seven Stars? At least in Chicago, no one has won anything important often enough to develop a Red Sox style complex. Seven Stars, how has the view of Boston fans toward the Yankees changed now that they won the World Series? Well MasterCrabby, since I live in Philly it is diffucult for me to claim representation of the Red Sox fans in Boston. Having said that, I would probably disagree on some level about the hatred thing. Some Red Sox fans definitely do hate the Yankees, however, it seems to me that many of them know baseball well enough to respect the accomplishments of that organization. You are correct in saying that hatred for the Yanks is not characteristic of all Red Sox fans. I didn't realize that there was such animosity between the Cubs and White Sox. Obviously there is a cross town rivalry there, but my impression has always been that the Cubs were pretty much the toast of the town out there in Chicago. I guess I was wrong in that assumption. Regarding a possible change in demeanor on the part of Red Sox fans... I feel that there is a pervasive sense of relief amongst the fans, and yet I think that most are still very passionate about the success of their team this year.
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Post by MasterCrabby on Apr 9, 2005 23:53:36 GMT -5
Seven Stars, thanks for your comments. I guess I didn't expect any reaction to be uniform. Evidently, it is just that perception that "the Cubs are the toast of the town" which burns up the White Sox fans. Generally, Cubs fans don't think much about the White Sox, which also annoys WS fans. Another complaint is that Tribune Co., owners of the Cubs are also broadcasting White Sox games, but rarely. I guess they don't have another broadcast station. Am I right, Chicago folks? Also, in Chicago they call them the Sox, just like in Boston.
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Post by skinz unlogged on Apr 10, 2005 11:30:12 GMT -5
Evidently, it is just that perception that "the Cubs are the toast of the town" which burns up the White Sox fans. Generally, Cubs fans don't think much about the White Sox, which also annoys WS fans. Another complaint is that Tribune Co., owners of the Cubs are also broadcasting White Sox games, but rarely. I guess they don't have another broadcast station. Am I right, Chicago folks? Also, in Chicago they call them the Sox, just like in Boston. I actually like the White Sox more than the Cubs. They have Korneko, Jermaine Dye, Rowland, Garcia, Shingo, and the newcomer Iguchi who got great defense for what I saw. They still need another powerful hitter instead of Korneko though. I'm so glad I have digital cable. ;D I can watch the white sox and other teams instead of risking my health with watching some METS games right now.
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Post by MasterCrabby on Apr 10, 2005 12:21:40 GMT -5
The White Sox look good lately. Skinz, you have Pedro going today, and Smoltz was shelled in his last start. Today could be the Mets' breakthrough. I'll watch some of it. (til 3pm)
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Post by skinz on Apr 10, 2005 14:51:31 GMT -5
FINALLY!!!!!!! Although fans of less spectacular teams are always angry, We sure get to experience the thrill of an exciting turnaround.
1 down so far.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by seven stars on Apr 11, 2005 11:44:21 GMT -5
I actually like the White Sox more than the Cubs. They have Korneko, Jermaine Dye, Rowland, Garcia, Shingo, and the newcomer Iguchi who got great defense for what I saw. They still need another powerful hitter instead of Korneko though. I'm so glad I have digital cable. ;D I can watch the white sox and other teams instead of risking my health with watching some METS games right now. Well, Frank Thomas should be back in the lineup before too long. He sure has some power! Big relief for the Mets off of that Beltran homer. Congrats Skinz (and other Mets fans)!
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Post by chigirl68 on Apr 12, 2005 11:26:26 GMT -5
In answer to the White Sox / Cubs tension in Chicago, If you ask a fan of either team if you live in Chicago you must pick only one team. No rooting for both teams.
Baseball fans in the city are mostly loyal either to the north (Cubs) side, or to the south (White Sox) side. It is very rare to find a baseball fan in Chicagoland that does not strongly back one team over the other. Having grown up on the North side and going to Cubs games when I was little, I am a Cubs fan of course.
The Cubs last participated in the World Series in 1945 and last won it in 1908. The White Sox' last American League championship was in 1959, and their last World Series win was in 1917.
Wrigley Field continues to be a tourist destination, while the White Sox' home at Comiskey Park now known as U.S. Cellular Field, is consistently undersold. The difference could be because of the ballparks themselves and/or to the neighborhoods they are in. The Cubs are in a upscale neighborhood known as Wrigleyville. While the Sox are in Bridgeport, a working-class neighborhood. Many Sox fans are wary of spending any time in the Bridgeport neighborhood. Cubs fans can party in one of Chicago's upscale (and perceived safer) north side neighborhood even though studies show there is a higher crime rate.
Mayor Richard M. Daley is a Bridgeport native. To his credit, he has prevented Bridgeport from deteriorating to the degree of much of the South Side. Some South Siders go so far as to say that Cubs fans inaccurately perpetuate the perception of the South Side as run down. This may be one reason for Sox fans to resent the Cubs.)
Interleague play has added to the rivalry. The start of interleague play ensured that both teams are playing for real. The rivalry is the talk of the town in local sports talk radio when the two teams meet. Currently the White Sox are winning the Interleague games 22-20.
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Post by seven stars on Apr 13, 2005 9:31:31 GMT -5
So just to review: K-Dramas, Sushi, Comic books, and now baseball too! Chigirl has got it going on! Great facts by the way. It's very helpful information for someone who's never been to Chicago.
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Post by chigirl68 on Apr 13, 2005 10:41:27 GMT -5
So just to review: K-Dramas, Sushi, Comic books, and now baseball too! Chigirl has got it going on! Great facts by the way. It's very helpful information for someone who's never been to Chicago. I can't take credit for starting this thread. Plus I am just a casual BB fan. Hockey is my main sport. Thank heavens for the AHL in these NHL nightmare times. Also, you wouldn't think the BB rivalry in Chicago should be as thick as it really is. I do hear more smack talking from Sox fans though. That just may be me.
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Post by MasterCrabby on Apr 13, 2005 23:52:59 GMT -5
Yes, the resentment some Cubs and White Sox fans have for each other is a learning experience. I think some of them enjoy it as a sort of hobby. Chigirl, what do White Sox fans say to you? Do they taunt you in public?
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Post by chigirl68 on Apr 14, 2005 8:04:35 GMT -5
Yes, the resentment some Cubs and White Sox fans have for each other is a learning experience. I think some of them enjoy it as a sort of hobby. Chigirl, what do White Sox fans say to you? Do they taunt you in public? I don't really take it to heart. It's more of a guy thing that I have seen. Last year it was all about Sosa. I wonder who will be their target to bash this year? We'll have to wait and see.
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