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Post by kathleen34 on Feb 4, 2005 16:40:21 GMT -5
These stories present such a wonderfual array of emotion that just isn't found in Amercan dramas ... soap operas. Nobody gives a care about family loyalty, ingetrity or any particular code of ethic ... unless it puts them first. It's 2:00 in the afternoon and they're dressed to the nines... perfect hair, perfect makeup, beautiful 'houses'... and the concern is usually who's sleeping with who ... and how can I get them for doing so... (sure there was a time when I watched these stupid shows but i was young and foolish).
now I'm a church secretary and know better.... These Korean stories touch my heart ... and even my mind ... at many levels.
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Post by Alexa on Feb 4, 2005 16:44:50 GMT -5
But when I watched my re-runs I always had second thoughts. I don't really think anybody is truly a "bad guy" in this series - not even Sanghyuk. Sanghyuk is definetely the bad guy, with serious emotional issues. I understand that it's hard to let go of someone that you love (been there, many many years ago, in a land far away..........) but the things he does to keep Yujin go to an extreme. I mean, pretending to kill yourself so that someone would come back to you, thats insane! He lies, he's deceitful, and then he tried to rape her! Seriously there is something wrong with him. He seems nice one minute and then snaps the next. Who knows what else his capable of. And as for Damo, CannedCats3, I feel your pain
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Post by moreshige on Feb 4, 2005 20:44:20 GMT -5
kathleen34, I think the same way too but alas I wished my sister would have considered k-drama over shows like 90210...She didnt know what she was missing even though we're korean-americans. But of course at that time we didn't have subtitles. Now I find it ironic that main-stream americans find k-drama appealing over american soaps. If only my sis knew. lol
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Post by BAE on Feb 4, 2005 23:00:32 GMT -5
Sanghyuk is definetely the bad guy, with serious emotional issues. I understand that it's hard to let go of someone that you love (been there, many many years ago, in a land far away..........) but the things he does to keep Yujin go to an extreme. I mean, pretending to kill yourself so that someone would come back to you, thats insane! He lies, he's deceitful, and then he tried to rape her! Seriously there is something wrong with him. He seems nice one minute and then snaps the next. Who knows what else his capable of. And as for Damo, CannedCats3, I feel your pain he did so some pretty bad things, and the attemped sexual assault being on the very top, but don't we all? i mean, that's what makes us so vunerable to the pressures of this world. i am probably most like che-lin, which is why i can empathize with her character, but don't we all commit acts of turpitude against one another every now and then? SH is so loving, i guess wrestling with a memory of someone for ten years was just way too hard, he resorted to lying and cheating to get what he wanted.
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alanna
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Post by alanna on Feb 4, 2005 23:41:18 GMT -5
he did so some pretty bad things, and the attemped sexual assault being on the very top, but don't we all? i mean, that's what makes us so vunerable to the pressures of this world. i am probably most like che-lin, which is why i can empathize with her character, but don't we all commit acts of turpitude against one another every now and then? SH is so loving, i guess wrestling with a memory of someone for ten years was just way too hard, he resorted to lying and cheating to get what he wanted. I agree with Bae up there. True, logically speaking what Sang-hyuk did was definitely wrong. But isn't that the kind of intensity we want in our love life, sometimes? (Young people dream about it all the time~) The hero's love as we usually see in the movies has a guy going to extreme to rescue or delight the woman he loves. In Sang-hyuk's case, the real tragedy is that he's not the main guy of the show. Another thing to consider is that although we blame Sang-hyuk for not giving Yu-jin the freedom to follow her heart, cultural tendency in Korea somewhat "expects" one to be possessive and clingy to certain extent. I remeber my friend calling her boyfriend in the middle of the night just to say good night. I didn't understood at first but she explained that she and her boyfriend informs each other of when they sleep, wake up and so forth. Another case had to do with my sister. One day she came home fuming, saying that she better break up with her boyfriend. The reason was that he only calls her when he's free of work. I asked what's wrong with that. "But love doesn't work that way. In the beginning you can't help but think about that person all the time and giving in to temptation to call even when you're in the middle of whatever that is important." One of the virtues of K-drama as commented by foreigners is being loyal to family and friends. But that loyalty on the other hand could allow a bit of possessiveness of each other, making one to take granted that so-and-so belongs to "me". And speaking under cultural context some of Korean-style possessiveness may look downright rude in American standard. I'm not saying Korean style is perfect but please don't make Sanghyuk a monster. Seriously, some people might actually feel "touched" if they have somebody who'd go to that extreme. (And besides Sang-hyuk (Park Yong-ha) has lots of supporters of his own too, including my mom and other female fans in Japan. He's being called Yong-ha chan and has guest-starred in few Japanese dramas) ;D.
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chi8
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Post by chi8 on Feb 5, 2005 7:57:39 GMT -5
I agree with Alanna. I think Sanghyuk has come in for way too much bashing here. In the early episodes, I found myself saying that Yujin had two really nice, decent guys to choose from (sort of the same reaction I had to the two guys in The Phoenix), only she couldn't do it. I don't think we can blame Sanghyuk too much for his rather obsessive behavior in the middle episodes--put yourself in his position. He has known Yujin a long time (all his life?) and has always assumed that they would marry, and suddenly his world is falling apart because of her attraction to Joonsang. Who among us wouldn't react in the same way. Yes, he comes away as being overly possessive, but can we really blame him? I don't want to blame the "victim", but he hasn't had a lot of help from Yujin, who constantly wavers between her attraction to Joonsang and her loyalty to family and friends who expect her to marry Sanghyuk.
In Episode 17, after Joonsang tells him that he is going to America, Sanghyuk calls after him ("Joonsang", not Minhyun), and Joonsang turns around, Sanghyuk takes his hand, shakes it and says "Thanks for being alive", not "Thanks for going away and leaving us in peace". To me, that is the most noble emotion he could express.
In Episode 18, we see him as a tragic character, resigned to his fate and unable to do anything about it. In Episode 19 we see him cry for the first time when he tells Yujin that he will no longer try to come between her and Joonsang. I see him more and more as a sympathetic character more to be pitied than despised.
But it's not over yet. Remember, we have been led to believe, even in Episode 19 when Joonsang's mother explains that his father died, that his father is also Yujin's father. Big problem. But I did read somewhere that the makers of the series bent the story to meet popular demand--so I am expecting that in fact Sanghyuk's father is also Joonsang's father. That would certainly meet American hopes and expectations, but, as Alanna points out, family loyalty, etc. are stronger in Korea, so perhaps public demand was for Yujin and Sanghyuk to marry, in which case the Yujin/Joonsang half-sibling scenario is the right one. Will we find out in Episode 20? It's on in Chicago tonight, so perhaps we will see.
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Post by kathleen34 on Feb 5, 2005 9:37:36 GMT -5
Having gone back to my drawing board and watching EP 19, if I could apologize to Sanghyuk in person, I would. Now THERE's a fantasy for you. He was so heartfelt and sincere and lovely when he spoke with Yujin .... and his parents. He behaved like an adult. I've sometimes thought if the actors for Joonsang and Sanghyuk were reversed how different it would have been.
I'm hoping that S and J are brothers and that like in so many of these wonderful dramas, the families come together through such hardship and pain ... and they grow from it. The loyalty and integrity, while it can be frustrating... it's also to be greatly admired and maybe if more of us behaved driven by those characteristics perhaps society wouldn't be as messed up as it is.
Amen... for now
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alanna
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Post by alanna on Feb 5, 2005 9:39:59 GMT -5
Let's think this in a bit of different perspective.
Sang-hyuk could be very sweet, considerate and gentle most of the times. Just look at his relationship with his mother at the beginning and you might see how wonderful he is to his family.
But when it comes to protecting his own territory, he could be quite ruthless.
Everything is fair in love and war - I bet that's what's in Sang-hyuk's mind.
...in a way cool, isn't it? ;D
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Post by kathleen34 on Feb 5, 2005 10:13:36 GMT -5
yes Alanna, it's very cool! Major wars have been started over this thing called 'love'....
So do we think that Cherin is in a state of mind that she can drive safely? To his credit Sanghyuk made a good effort at keeping her from driving off, but of course failed because Cherin knows best. I hope before this is over that Sanghyuk will become cherished by someone ... in the final analysis, he deserves someone wonderful. Cherin... I'm not so sure unless she has an attitude transplant.
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Post by Alexa on Feb 7, 2005 10:15:00 GMT -5
Well Sanghyuk did redeem himself for all the crazy things he did. I'm glad that he finally understood that him and Yujin were not meant to be. He realized that he couldn't force Yujin to be with him because she doesn't love him and loves someone else. I'm glad that he finally came to his senses. I'm just wondering if he is going to act up again and do anything crazy.
And yes we all do crazy things when we're "in love" We act foolish and say the craziest things, but there is just something about Sanghyuk that I don't like. I guess after all the things that he did, I can't bring myself to like the man.
On the other hand I'm starting to feel sorry for Cherin. Maybe Cherin and Sanghyuk should hook up ;D
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Post by Lucy on Feb 7, 2005 11:34:58 GMT -5
Alanna, your comments, as always, are very perceptive and insightful. And very convincing! I don't think I have been a big Sang-hyuk basher, but I was against him. To be fair to the people who thought he was a gigantic jerk, consider that perhaps that's what we were supposed to think until the writers started writing him a different way. Leaving aside the question of his trying to force himself on Yu-jin, there were a couple of episodes where he was acting rather evil. Not so much in his actions, but in his mood and his motives. He certainly seemed like someone who was about to become unhinged and possibly dangerous. The way he let Yu-jin think--in fact, deliberately deceived her into thinking--that MH was not JS, and the way he tried to make Joon-sang think that he was a terrible person in his past life. The guy lost his memory, so Sang-hyuk was trying to exploit that fact by making JS think that he had really hurt Yu-jin and didn't deserve to be with her. That's just an out and out lie. To me, that's too sneaky and mean to fit under the category of decent behavior or defending your love. I guess it's all in the perception, though, and that's probably what you're trying to point out to us who are coming from a different perspective, Alanna. Lucy
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Post by Lucy on Feb 7, 2005 11:40:27 GMT -5
Chi8, do you think, from what you read, that the story was originally supposed to end up being that Yu-jin and Joon-sang had the same father, but that, by popular demand, the writers/producers changed it so that they could remain lovers? I'm not asking for a spoiler, understand, but just your opinion on what "bending the story" COULD (not DOES) mean. I am pretty invested in these characters now, so I feel a little sick at the thought that the original story was meant to end so sadly.
Thanks! Lucy
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Post by hachiue on Feb 7, 2005 16:30:26 GMT -5
The weekend episodes sure have changed the tide of opinion on Sanghyuk. Not that I mind - it's actually quite refreshing and somewhat reasonable to hear that he's just doing these things out of love and trying to sweep Yujin off her feet.
I mean, I still think that it's a little self-serving. This has mainly to do with his "suicide" when he took all his vacation and stopped eating so that Yujin would feel that she had to come back to him or feel the guilt of causing his death - not the attempted rape, whatever, he apparently thought that was consensual at the time or something b/c he let her go after she struggled, so it's bad but not as bad as forcing someone to feel the burden of your life on them.
However, I think that he's finally wising up and accepting that what will be, will be. If he's meant to have Yujin then he will, but if not, then he won't.
You know what would be truly evil? Sanghyuk and Cherin get together as rebounds and end up being happy with each other. But ... Joonsang and Yujin are related. So they're left out at the end because of how much they hurt the "friends" and their families. I know it won't end like that but it's fun to think of new endings every day.
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Post by Lucy on Feb 7, 2005 17:25:22 GMT -5
I'm glad you said this. I never thought of it as attempted rape, but I didn't want anyone to think I was pro-rape or defending forcing one's fiancee into having sex with one, so I didn't join in much. But the attempted whatever seemed to come out of nowhere, and he gave up in a second, so it just seemed like a really ugly moment where he got angry and desperate and lost his head, rather than a thwarted rape. I felt at the time that if she hadn't succeeded in fighting him off, he would have given up on his own in another minute, once he realized what he was doing. It's really scary, though, that he is the sort of person who would do something like that. I mean, I can't imagine what I would think of a boyfriend who forced me down like that, even if he did give up a second later. I think it would send me running out of the house, never to return. But I guess what I'm saying is, these are characters in a drama, and what is borderline-forgivable on a drama is different from what's ok/not ok in real life. We are watching to be entertained by their doings, and we shouldn't hold them to the same standards we hold real people to. Yes, I know we do anyway, but I'm just talking abstractly here.
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chi8
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Post by chi8 on Feb 9, 2005 8:21:40 GMT -5
Chi8, do you think, from what you read, that the story was originally supposed to end up being that Yu-jin and Joon-sang had the same father, but that, by popular demand, the writers/producers changed it so that they could remain lovers? I don' think the author said (I think it was the article posted elsewhere here from the New York Times, but not sure). My own speculation is that yes, Yujin and Joonsang were supposed to have the same father, and that would have turned the whole story into a tragedy, if I read the opinions here correctly. Remember, Damo turned into a 3-way tragedy all of a sudden, and nobody was happy with that. Based on the coming attractions after Episode 20, I currently think that Sanghyuk and Joonsang are half brothers, but anything can happen. FROM BO 2 CHI8 - I fixed your formatting. I knew you'd want me to. ;D
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