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Post by Eowyn on Nov 2, 2005 8:19:00 GMT -5
well said, moreshige. I also felt that Yi Soon-shin knew he was going to die.
Choko, thanks for that great post. Have you read The Book Of Corrections? If so, is it very interesting?
skinz, I thought the same about those photos - "tragic and fantastic," especially Wakizaka with his desperate, wild hair.
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Post by pakyownage4eva on Nov 2, 2005 17:54:20 GMT -5
I don't believe Admiral Yi took off his armor. It's hard to believe that they would go on fighting when their admiral is exposed, wearing a bright red uniform.
Reading about the Manchurian invasion really upset me. Admiral Yi died and left Chosun believing there would be no more war but then comes Manchuria. ;/
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aeo
New Addict
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Post by aeo on Nov 3, 2005 16:22:08 GMT -5
Does anybody know if Yi Soon Shin's descendant's are living? According to the series, his direct heir, son, is killed by Wakizaka and only his nephew survives. I wonder if this is true or whether the series creator made this up.
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Post by chigirl68 on Nov 3, 2005 16:41:38 GMT -5
I know someone will have more time than I do to fully answer you. Even tho YSS oldest son was killed (not necessarily the way it was depicted ion the series) he had more children. We just did not hear of them in the show.
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Post by florel on Nov 3, 2005 17:14:23 GMT -5
YSS had three sons and one daughter. In the drama, we see his three sons except the daughter. YSS, YSS's wife and YSS's eldest son Yi Hoe (born in 1567) - in Episode 24 In the same episode, YSS has one more baby child. It's his second son Yi Ul (aka Yi Yol, born in 1571). His youngest son, Yi Myun was born in 1577 after YSS had passed the Military Examination (in 1576 - Ep. 25). We see him several times in the drama. Yi Myun was killed by the Japanese who attacked Asan in September 1597 (Episode 97). Wakisaka's involvement is a fiction. (If you want to know historical facts, please read History & fiction thread and some more other thread opened by skinz or choko's postings. - Yi Myun's death is mentioned in page 12.) YSS's three sons (in Episode 90) YSS also had many nephews. In the drama, we see only one of them, Yi Wan. Another nephew Yi Bun wrote YSS's biography translated and published in the English version of Imjin Changcho, YSS's memorials to the court. YSS's sons and nephews had many descendants. Many of them became military officers, commanders and navy supreme commanders. I read an interview with the 14th descendant (the eldest of the eldest line) of the Admiral. This man said he had had to make great efforts to hide the Admiral's famous swords from the Japanese's confiscation during the Japanese occupation period (1909-1945). YSS's famous swords
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Post by Candylover on Nov 3, 2005 23:43:59 GMT -5
There seem to be three theories about YSS's death. next are brief introductions of them. Hope you enjoy it.
1. YSS died in battle in 1598. As shown in the drama.
2. YSS killed himself pretending that he fell in action. We can refer to Chosun Sillok to find out what the king was thinking about him.
On October 1597, the king said about Myurng-ryang battle "The enemy Yi Soon-Shin defeated was only a trilfe one. He just did his duty, and his victory is also a trifle one." On April 1598 the king said "Are there any ways to award a prize to Yi Soon-Shin without promoting him?" On April 1599 the king said that the Noh-ryang battle was a trifle victory.
Admiral Chen Lin said in his funeral oration, which is extant today, "Admiral Yi always used to say 'I put my country trouble, the only thing left to me is to die.'...Now that you(YSS) recovered the territory, avenged your country on the enemies, why did you carry out what you used to say about?" According to the oration, YSS clearly knew what the king was thinking about him, and was very cautious of it. He already knew that Kim Durk-Ryurng, one of the war heroes in the land battles, was framed up and killed by the king. So superficially 'the only thing left to me' means death in battle, but at the same time it might imply pretended one or a suicide.
Ryu Hyurng, one of YSS's favored officers who later became the general commander of three regions, wrote in a record about YSS's life like the followings.
The reason why Admiral Yi used to say to me "If a general thought about being recognized as a war hero, surley his life will be endangered. So I would rather die on the day the enemies retreat" is because Won Kyun and others, envious of his sucesses, continued speaking ill of him to the king.
The records above might imply his pretended death in battle or suicide in actual fact.
3. YSS did not die in battle. Some historians argue that YSS pretened that he has died in battle, but in fact he lived a life in seclusion for 16 yeasrs after the war.
As pointed out already on this board, it is very unlikely that a commander takes off his armor while the battle is still going on fiercely. Moreover, according to the record by Yi Boon who is Wahn's own brother, the only three witnesses to his death were his eldest son Hweh, his nephew Wahn and his servant, no matter how his death was depicted in the drama. His son and his nephew never participated in the sea battle except the final one, and there was not a witness among officers or soldiers. His son and nephew might have been there to help him to pretend to die.
The funeral for YSS was held 80 days later after his death. Since the expense for the funeral was paid by the government and the war was finished already right after the final sea battle, there was no need to delay the funeral so long. It was unusual. Moreover in 1614, 16 years later after his death and 15 years after his funeral, his grave was removed to another place some 600 meters from the previous place. It's also very unusual. Considering he did not die in battle, he would have been 70 yeasrs in 1614, and the grave removing might have been the "real" funeral for him.
YSS said in one of his poems "When the day comes to release military horses from battle fields, I will live a life of recluse."
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Raven
Junior Addict
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Posts: 160
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Post by Raven on Nov 4, 2005 0:12:03 GMT -5
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Choko
Junior Addict
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Post by Choko on Nov 4, 2005 6:44:24 GMT -5
Choko, thanks for that great post. Have you read The Book Of Corrections? If so, is it very interesting? Eowyn, I read the book in Korean language. I have no idea about how's the English translation is. At the first reading, I felt ashamed because the book exposes all the deplorable, lazy, and disgraceful behaviors of the Chosunese officials before and during the 7-year war. I think they were far dirtier than the drama depicted. (That's why the book is respected. How brave for him to show something shameful without hiding) Yu Sung-ryong, as a high ranking government official, wrote the book in hopes that anything like the 7-year war never happen in the future. His desperate voice in the book was resonant with my mind. But, I'm not sure how you feel about the book. It's not entertaining. (Don't expect anything like "The Romance of Three kingdoms" etc. There is no romanticism of the war in the book)
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Post by Eowyn on Nov 4, 2005 8:47:33 GMT -5
Thanks Choko. I guess I was just wondering if it would be confusing for me to read.
I think I will try and read it in the future.
candylover - that was a very interesting post about the Admiral's death
florel - what an awesome sight to see the admiral's enormous swords. It's good they were hidden so well during the Japanese occupation.
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Post by IAPD3000 on Nov 4, 2005 10:21:35 GMT -5
To me clearly . . . it was the best episode ever. And I will miss it so much.
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Post by BungalowDweller on Nov 4, 2005 12:45:37 GMT -5
Thanks Flore, Candylover, and Choko for all of the interesting, thought-provoking information. This series will be hard to "get over". We've lived with the Admiral for quite some time now. Yesderday my daughter asked me if she could read my copy of the War Diary. I don't know how much a 12 year old can get out of it, but she hasn't let the book out of her hand. My next Amazon purchase (after I pay for the yearly furnace check-up! ;D) will be the Book of Corrections.
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Post by kathleen34 on Nov 4, 2005 13:30:17 GMT -5
Major DUH, also major Dog's Nose... I went to Hanbooks to find The Book of Corrections... couldn't find it... even did a basic GOOGLE search for it.. found nothing.... :-*THEN - Thanks to Bungalowdweller I just went to AMAZON and purchased The Book of Corrections. Maybe on the 11/19 we could all bring the books that we've purchased as a result of sharing on this board. Thanks again, Bungalowdweller... I tap into AMAZON almost every day. I thought if Hanbooks didn't have it, AMAZON certainly wouldn't.
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Post by BungalowDweller on Nov 4, 2005 13:41:49 GMT -5
Thanks again, Bungalowdweller... I tap into AMAZON almost every day. I thought if Hanbooks didn't have it, AMAZON certainly wouldn't. de rein, mom ami! But I can't take the credit for this one! I don't remember who supplied the post, but someone on this board mentioned the book and provided the Amazon link. I just meekly followed it. Thanks to Florel, Choko, Bo or whoever else it was!
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Post by pakyownage4eva on Nov 4, 2005 21:54:43 GMT -5
Not that I wanted to him to die violently, but I hope he died on the battlefield because it is just heroic and more tragic... lol, almost sounds like a play
What a terrible king. His subjects save his useless butt and he backstabs them.
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Post by MasterCrabby on Nov 5, 2005 20:20:25 GMT -5
Tonight is the first Saturday at 9:00 PM when I won't be glued to the TV by habit in about two years, unless the waxed-chest and girlfriend drama we got last Sunday makes way for Genghis.
Candylover's three theories of death led me to come up with my own. As we know, the King had detailed people to do YSS in if he strayed. My theory is that the crummy King had YSS's staff infiltrated, and that they were set to rub him out. I am sure, after so many years of war, that captured muskets would be available to Korean military. They smuggle the gun on board, wait until the heat of battle, and plug him. If it was true that he had no armored coat on, it could be that planted persons attempted to grab him, and YSS slipped the armor they were holding him by, and ran on deck, whereupon the King's boys shot him unnoticed, dumping the gun overboard.
This would explain his "prophetic" expectation of his death, should he have been tipped off of the King's men who were to snuff him out. I know it's terrible, but the King was a big stinker, so I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe that's why Jin Lin could phrase the eulogy in that way, because perhaps the word was out that YSS would be taken out, and he knew that YSS understood that that was the price of his decision to do battle.
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