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Post by florel on Apr 28, 2005 16:41:40 GMT -5
* This is a simplified version which shows the titles and their hierarchy in Left Cholla Navy.
Chosun Bureaucracy System # 2 : Left Cholla Navy (1592)
3rd High rank : susa - YSS, Commander
3rd Low rank : busa, Constable of Suncheon - Kwon Jun chumsa - YSS (hom.) of Bang-Dap, Kim Wan of Sado
4th Low rank : gunsu - Shin Ho of Nak-An manho, Captain - Chung Woon of Nokdo
6th Low rank : Hyungam, Magistrate - Uh Young-Dam of Gwang-Yang (from Ep. 53)
9th Low rank : Lieutenant guys with green uniform - Song Hui-Rip, Na Dae-Yong, Yi Uhn-Ryang (from episodes 60's)
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Post by moreshige on Apr 28, 2005 18:55:16 GMT -5
Thanks, guys, all of your illuminating contributions. Moresighe, can I add a precision ? Admiral Yi Ok-ki didn't participate in the battle of Okpo. He will join Admiral YSS from the battle of Danghangpo. Oh, I assumed Yi Ok-ki participated in the battle because YSS had sent a message to follow him. So I guess Yi Ok-ki didn't come in time enough to join YSS and Won Kyun.
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Post by moreshige on Apr 28, 2005 19:00:48 GMT -5
also, I seem to recall that one of YSS's "cabinet" is always being teased by the others for thinking things can be solved with the pen--is he a literati, too?- I guess you mention Kwon Jun. In the drama, Yes. The dramatists depict him as a literati official. But it's not certain on this point. He became admiral (as you saw in Ep. 1-4) and he killed a Japanese commander by arrow (or gun) shot (in a futur episode). Was he a professional military man in real history ? Possibly. I hope someone else would offer us more historical data about him. I thought I already mentioned him. 2.) "Sunchon magistrate, Kwon Jun, forgetting about himself, pentetrated the enemy position first, breaking and capturing one large enemy pavilion vessel, and beheading 10 Japanese warriors including the Commander, and bringing back a Korean prisoner of war....." You guys judge for yourself if he was just a "desk" officer. (Spoiler) I was dissapointed when I didn't see this side of Kwon Jun in the battle of Ok Po. He just stood there next to YSS, incorrectly making him seem like a non-warrior-like officer.
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Post by moreshige on Apr 28, 2005 20:36:04 GMT -5
Left Cholla Navy has five land garrisons and five port garrisons. Five land garrisons are... Suncheon ( busa, Constable) - the 3rd Low rank, Kwon Jun Nak-An ( gunsu) - the 4th Low rank, Shin Ho Boseong ( gunsu) - the 4th Low rank Gwang-Yang ( hyungam) - the 6th Low rank, Uh Young-Dam Heung-Yang ( hyungam) - the 6th Low rank, Bae Heung-Rip (YSS's loyal subordinate, but absent in the drama.) Five port garrisons (with pure military officers) are Bang-Dap ( chumsa) - the 3rd Low rank, Yi Soon-Shin (homonym) Sado ( chumsa) - the 3rd Low rank, Kim Wan Nokdo ( manho, captain) - the 4rd Low rank, Chung Woon Yeodo ( manho, captain) - the 4rd Low rank Balpo ( manho, captain) - the 4rd Low rank Cf. YSS was Captain of Balpo when he was young. To augment your awesome definitions, Florel, here are some more of the historical officers under YSS. (not in drama) Kim Gwang-duk (Bo-song gunsu) Bae Hong Rip (Heung-yang hyungam) I see you mention him. Kim In-Young (Yeo-do kwonkwan) Chae Dae-sung (Gunkwan) Bae Ong-rok (Gunkwan) Yi Uhn Ryang (Gunkwan) You mention him too...he appears later in the drama Question to Florel: sorry, I wish I had korean type here.... you listed Yi Uhn Ryang as kwonkwan("gu--uuhn" in han gul) but I have him as Gunkwan ("gu--ooohn" in hangul). Which is it? I also listed Kim In-young as "kwonkwan"
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Post by moreshige on Apr 28, 2005 21:10:22 GMT -5
I think what I wrote in the other thread seems more appropiate here. All of YSS captains were real historical figures. What the drama doesn't show is that YSS had more than the 6 blue-coated captains we see in the show. Yss had several more captains under him. And as for the navies, there were four. In the show we are mainly shown YSS's left cholla navy and Won Kyun's right kyung sang navy. Right cholla navy was headed by Yi Ok-ki whom we don't see much of in the show. He was a competant leader who helped YSS from the beginning (battle of Ok po). Left kyung sang navy's leader, Pak Hong, was a coward who fled the moment he saw the Japanese make their landing. And consequently, much of kyung sang province was decimated. YSS's captains we know in the show are: Yi Soon-shin (bang dap chum sa).....charge of budget Shin Ho (Nak an Gun su).....charge of food supply Uh Young Dahm (kwan Yang Hyun gam)....charge of maps Chung Eun (Nokdo mahn ho).......charge of cannons Kim Wahn (sa do chum sa) ......monkey man Kwon Jun (Sunchon magistrate)....YSS's right hand man Interesting facts during the first battle of Ok Po' In YSS's own words..... 1.) "Chung Eun, captain from Nokdo," holed and destroyed 2 large enemy pavilion vessels with cannon fire and burned them completely by attacks in cooperation with other ships, cut off 3 Japanese heads, and rescued 2 Korean prisioners of war" 2.) "Sunchon magistrate, Kwon Jun, forgetting about himself, pentetrated the enemy position first, breaking and capturing one large enemy pavilion vessel, and beheading 10 Japanese warriors including the Commander, and bringing back a Korean prisoner of war....." And there were heroics of other YSS's captains but they are not in the show. Here's another... YSS writes..... 3.) "Yong -tam also dashed forward, breaking and capturing one large pavilion vessel. He hit the enemy commander with an arrow, and brought him back to my ship, but before interrogation he fell dead without speaking, so I ordered his head to be cut off." I made a huge mistake ....All of the writings of YSS I mentioned were from accounts of the battle of Hansando and not Ok po. And I also forget to write about another one of our officers in the show. 4.) YSS writes, " ....and one left ear cut from a Japanese beheaded by Shin Ho, Magistrate of Nak an." My conclusion is that our beloved officers we've gotten to know did a lot of beheading in real life.
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Post by moreshige on Apr 28, 2005 21:37:00 GMT -5
I thought I already mentioned him. 2.) "Sunchon magistrate, Kwon Jun, forgetting about himself, pentetrated the enemy position first, breaking and capturing one large enemy pavilion vessel, and beheading 10 Japanese warriors including the Commander, and bringing back a Korean prisoner of war....." You guys judge for yourself if he was just a "desk" officer. (Spoiler) I was dissapointed when I didn't see this side of Kwon Jun in the battle of Ok Po. He just stood there next to YSS, incorrectly making him seem like a non-warrior-like officer. Lol. I think I already answered my own question. He was standing next to YSS because episode 60 was the battle of Ok po and not Hansando where the quotes reffering to. So I won't see Kwon Jun fight until I see the episode that contains the battle of Hansando.
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Post by florel on Apr 28, 2005 22:55:44 GMT -5
Cheer up, moreshige, everyone commit their own mistakes. I also made my own. Question to Florel: sorry, I wish I had korean type here.... you listed Yi Uhn Ryang as kwonkwan("gu--uuhn" in han gul) but I have him as Gunkwan ("gu--ooohn" in hangul). Which is it? I also listed Kim In-young as "kwon-kwan" Ehh... I made a mistake this time. I deleted it. ;D Well, you're right. Yi Uhn-Ryang was gun-gwan or young-gun-gwan. Na Dae-Young was also gun-gwan. Kim In-young was gwon-gwan (also sp. as kwon-kwan). What's the difference between Gun-gwan (±º°ü) and gwon-gwan (±Ç°ü) ? Gun-gwan is a staff officer while gwon-gwan is a commander of small fort. Both of them are on the 9th Low rank. Yi Uhn-Ryang appears from ep. 60 around and he starts speaking from ep. 62. He is the guy who was shotted by Won Kyun's arrow. It's difficult to recognize this boy as Yi Uhn-Ryang because his name is not yet called in the drama. I came to know he was him when I read the scenario and watched second time those episodes. He is a new staff officer of YSS (hom.) of Bang-Dap.
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Post by florel on Apr 28, 2005 22:59:34 GMT -5
Oh, I assumed Yi Ok-ki participated in the battle because YSS had sent a message to follow him. So I guess Yi Ok-ki didn't come in time enough to join YSS and Won Kyun. It's not clear why Young Admrial Yi (Ok-ki) didn't participate in the first maritime operation of YSS. In his war diaries, Admiral YSS reveals nervous reactions to Yi Ok-Ki being late. At the 2nd maritime operation, YSS departed before Young Admiral's arrival at Left Cholla Naval Station because Won Kyun asked for rescuing him as fast as possible. Young Admiral only joined them at the 3rd battle of the 2nd maritime operation (the 6th battle of YSS). But in the drama, the writers modify the relation between YSS and Young Admiral up to Ep. 68. You will see...
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Post by Skinz Unlogged on Apr 29, 2005 9:07:03 GMT -5
Man, all that information is very intimidating. The first time reading that just flew over my head. Great Job both of you.
* Took a deep breath and began to analyze the info*
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Post by luvarchfiend on Apr 29, 2005 11:19:55 GMT -5
i have fallen behind and can't catch up ;D
oh what great information everyone.
and skinz, you said it best. i have a lot of reading and processing to do.
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Post by TheBo on Apr 29, 2005 13:45:54 GMT -5
My, my, my, you ask a LEEEEETLE question... Thanks, Florel. And you, too, Moreshige. And Florel...I am not that...sa-dee-queue thing! I'm nice! Ask my MOM. Oh, okay, she's the only one who thinks so. Bo
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Post by moreshige on Apr 29, 2005 20:52:43 GMT -5
I just had a pleasant surprise when I went over my own writing. It seems that our old "map maker" captain who wears the white armor, remember him?... was also a cool warrior in real life. His name is Uh Yong-dahm...he has a daughter in the show.
YSS writes describing the battle of Hansando..... 3.) "Uh Yong-dahm also dashed forward, breaking and capturing one large pavilion vessel. He hit the enemy commander with an arrow, and brought him back to my ship, but before interrogation he fell dead without speaking, so I ordered his head to be cut off."
Wow. I just realised this was thie same person YSS was writing about!
So far, we have descriptions from YSS himself about Uh yong-dahm, Kwon Jun, Chung Woon and Shin Ho....(all seen in the show) who historically were really cool bad-ass warriors.
I wonder if there are more quotes from YSS....as far as the captains we see on the show are concerned, like Kim Wahn and Yi Soon-shin (the captain with the same name as YSS).
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Post by moreshige on Apr 29, 2005 21:14:30 GMT -5
"isn't YSS (the immortal, not the homonym) a literati? he's educated as one, isn't he?
- Yes, he is also a man of the pen. As you saw in the drama, he had prepared literati examination before he passed military one."
Remember when I posted a poem by YSS in our haiku/limmerick section? These people lived a warrior/literati dichtomy.
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Post by TheBo on Apr 30, 2005 7:13:15 GMT -5
Remember when I posted a poem by YSS in our haiku/limmerick section? These people lived a warrior/literati dichtomy. Okay, guys, my question, "Wasn't YSS a literati?" was rhetorical. I know he's a literati (I, too, have been watching the show), my point was, they seemed to resent him a lot, as they did the other literati in their midst, and I wondered what the attitude was at the time in the military toward educated people. Sheesh. Bo
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Post by florel on Apr 30, 2005 19:16:18 GMT -5
Okay, guys, my question, "Wasn't YSS a literati?" was rhetorical. I know he's a literati (I, too, have been watching the show), my point was, they seemed to resent him a lot, as they did the other literati in their midst, and I wondered what the attitude was at the time in the military toward educated people. Sheesh. Bo Bo, we are not as sophisticated as you. ;D Okay, I see the point of your question. The social and political status of YSS is not a literati. He is a military man even though he has the talent of letters. In the drama, other officers don't resent YSS because he is a military literati like Kwon Jun. It seems to me that they show a kind of clannish attitude toward Constable Kwon who is different from them. And if they show a resentful sentiment toward YSS, it's because he proposes other strategies and training programs than theirs. Also They were shocked at the fact that a new commander was "parachuted" on them. A guy on lower rank suddenly became their leader and imposed his authority on them. I already said that the sudden promotion of YSS is an exceptional case in Chosun history. I don't know how the Chosun military officers felt about literati officials. I can only mention some well-known general historical facts. In real history, military officials were inferior to literati officials. The important military posts such as Minister of War were inaccessible for military officers. Perhaps they could have been disatisfied with this reality. But docile military leaders of Chosun didn't try to rise in insurrection against powerful literati bureaucrats. They always retained social privileges as member of aristocratic class. They just had some limitation of promotion in some important high governmental posts.
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