VIB, others: date of YSS' last battle?

[florel]

Thanks for scanning this picture ! I didn't know it.

I searched some informations on korean websites.

It's also a modern painting.
According to the web page of T'ongyong city, actual Chesungdang (Victory Hall) was rebuilt in 1932-1933 and this portrait was dedicated in 1933.

www.gnty.net/ (Web site of T'ongyong city, in Korean)

[florel]

Guest-Hachiman said:

Yes, certainly all of the Ieyasu portraits I've seen suggest he was rather fleshy faced. Now the guy who was notorious for being ugly was Hideyoshi who was nicknamed "monkey" on account of his looks. Another guy of this era who doesn't look so good (at least in the portrait I've seen) is Ieyasu's trusted General Honda--the dude looks like a warthog in the portrait.

Don't you think Hideyoshi in the Immortal YSS is too handsome ?

[florel]

A TV drama on Imjin Wars was also aired in Korea about twenty years ago : Imjin Waeran (MBC).
I think it was aired in 1985.

In this show, the role of Hideyoshi was taken by a famous korean actor, Chung Jin.
He has really monkey-like figure. So, I think, he resemble more Hideyoshi physically.
(I also have to say that he is very good actor.)


I found a very rare remaining photo of him as Hideyoshi on a web page.

[luvarchfiend]

Guest-florel said:

Thanks for scanning this picture ! I didn't know it.

I searched some informations on korean websites.

It's also a modern painting.
According to the web page of T'ongyong city, actual Chesungdang (Victory Hall) was rebuilt in 1932-1933 and this portrait was dedicated in 1933.

www.gnty.net/ (Web site of T'ongyong city, in Korean)

thank you florel for the additional info on this portrait. i am very fond of it.

also thanks for the posts you have done and all the information you are sharing with us.

[moreshige]

In regard to the original post, the daimyo of tushima, So Yonutsomo, probably had good trading rights because his family and ancestors were probably of korean origin. "So" is a korean family name, I believe. Can anyone shed further light or am I off ?

[ID]

Guest-florel said:

Extant "portraits" of Tokugawa Ieyasu make me to suppose that he might be a fat man at least in his old age.

I missed this one. From what i've seen, most Samurai are portrayed as huge figures. For example, in this portrait of Uesugi Kenshin {Nagao Kagetora}, he is a huge, almost god-like warrior, dwarfing his retainers.

www.samurai-archives.com/image/kenshin01.jpg [/img]

[florel]

Interestion painting, ID.

I don't know well japanese paintings. But your picture let me remind of old paintaings in China, Korea and Europe.

Many ancient paintings reveal very often symbolic significations. They fuction less than as realistic reproduction.

It's very prevailing phenomenon that, in old paintings, an important person is represented bigger than other persons or objects.


For example, "portrait" of Emperor Wu (156 - 87 BC) of the Han dynasty :




This is one of my favorites. An flemish miniature in the early of 15th century.



Saint Michael is bigger than a dragon and even the architecture of Mont-Saint-Michel.


I think your samurai painting works under same logic.


In addition to this, we have to note that ancient or medieval men had different social and esthetic values.

In some old societies, corporal corpulence was not considered as a vice. On the contrary, it was a sign of power, richness and social rank.

I'am sure the ruling class at that time were well nurished than peasants or fishers. ;D

[ID]

Yes, I believe the painting is of him crossing the river before Kanawakajima.

The Saint Michael picture is understandible. However, the fact that Uesugi Kenshin takes up a third of the boat, is somewhat odd.

[TheBo]

I notice that the actor who plays YSS in this show resembles both of the portraits of YSS that Florel and Luvarchfiend posted. He looks like a slender man in both portraits, an odd thing considering his importance. Your points on symbolism in portraiture are well taken, Florel. All art is, in fact, symbolic. It has only been relatively recently that we have had the idea that representation should be literal.

Bo