Another Archfiend Fan
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Post by Another Archfiend Fan on Jul 5, 2004 9:45:59 GMT -5
These are the top 10 most fearsome warriors around. The choices are based on how they were presented in the series and may not correspond to historical fact. Here's my choices:
1. The Archfiend - Come on, could anyone else possibly be *1?
2. Yi Ui-Bang - The Archfiend's mentor rarely exhibited the grace and nifty martial arts moves of his protege but that rarely mattered since his opponents were lying on the ground in a pool of their own blood. Brutally effective.
3. General Du - Fought the Archfiend to a standstill in a couple of epic battles. He loses points since he controlled his emotions too well to really scare the hell out of you.
5. Yi Ko - Quite possibly the worst temper of any warrior in AOW. His battle with the Archfiend was a classic - no elegance at all - just tow mean guys westling on the ground swinging swords and axes. He may have lost, but only to the best.
6. Che Won - Strong, fearless, and stupid. The best comic relief in the series. His death scene is one of the best in the series.
7. Kyung Dae Sung - Managed to fight the Archfiend and live to tell about it (KDS was not KO'd but definitely lost on points). Definitely loses some ground for not bagging Princess Suan and Soran. Ui-Bang and the Archfiend proved a great warrior never turns away a beautiful woman (or, in the case of Aran, even a not-so-beautiful woman).
8. Chief Huh - His icy stare gives chills. He would fight anyone anytime anywhere. KDS was his better.
9. General Park (aka Captain Park) - He died a general but most remember the Archfiend's original loyal sidekick as a captain. His death scene was the most moving in the series untilt the Archfiend's own.
10. General Choi (the one loyal to the Archfiend) - He is basically interchangable with General Park. I favored Park for sentimental reasons. I wouldn't argue for those who think Choi is better. His slapping around the Archfiend's two idiot sons is a series highlight.
Any comments?
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ArchFiend 4 life
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"Your Grace is Immeasurable"-every suboordinate in AoW
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Post by ArchFiend 4 life on Jul 5, 2004 11:43:10 GMT -5
Y not brue? Brue is badass kickers too!! I say replace Du with brue!
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Another Archfiend Fan
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Post by Another Archfiend Fan on Jul 5, 2004 11:57:37 GMT -5
I thought about Brue but he punked out against the Archfiend's moron offspring and loss to KDS while Du slapped son #2 silly. Besides, Du is the Archfiend's near equal while Brue is a definite second tier a**-kicker. He would make my top 15, however.
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Post by luvarchfiend on Jul 5, 2004 12:59:09 GMT -5
i certainly agree that the archfiend is number one. and yi ui-bang is second. i started watching after yi ko and che won were already gone, much to my sorrow, so i have no reference point for them.
next for me would be:
gen choi bu
KDS
chief huh
captain park
brue
not ten, but no one else i would want to add to this illustrious list.
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ronin
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Post by ronin on Jul 5, 2004 13:57:54 GMT -5
Archfiend (of course) Yi Ui Bang Che Won MinisterDu Kyung Seung General Choi Bu Brue Kyung Dae Seung Chief Huh Seung Yi Ji Soon
Brue was a sworn brother to the Archfiend. He couldn’t discipline his nephews because he probably thought it wasn’t his place. He can only give an uncle’s advice to the sons. But look at how he kicked the deposed Superior General Cho’s men during his coup and Cho’e Choong Hon’s men in his last episode all by himself and later with the Archfiend.
edit: I deleted Cho'e Choong Su's name from my list because he got his butt kicked by the Archfiend when he was dueling with General Choi Bu, he wasted his brother's men at the Archfiend's estate, and he could only win if he had an army with him. ;D
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Post by seven stars on Jul 6, 2004 14:07:33 GMT -5
Nice post, although I disagree about a couple of them, I like the reasoning.
I do believe strongly, though, that Du Kyungsung comes out ahead of Ui Bang by criteria of the show, or (even more strongly) by history's standard.
His controlled demeanor is more an asset than it is a liability in combat. His rivalry with the Archfiend demonstrates that he is of a strength and skill superior to all other warriors on AOW, with the obvious exception of the aforementioned, and that includes Ui Bang. Ui Bang may have trained the Archfiend (according to the show), but he had clearly been surpassed by him by the time period in which the show the takes place.
General Du demonstrated several times that he had no fear of any other warrior in the series, Archfiend notwithstanding. Ui Bang was not even strong enough to stand up to his own hormones to do what was right.
Even if they were close in terms strength (which they were not) Ui Bang is lacking certain intangible character traits that would be necessary for one to label him a great warrior the caliber of Ui Min and Kyungsung. He was a revolutionary leader who ruled with strength and intimidation. Fear is a shaky pedestal to stand on, and Ui Bang was clearly protected by the Archfiend's loyalty. He would have fallen far sooner were it not for Yi Ui Min.
By the way I noticed that Chung Kyun is not on this list. ;D
Any reason why?...
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Another Archfiend Fan
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Post by Another Archfiend Fan on Jul 7, 2004 1:15:17 GMT -5
Nice post, although I disagree about a couple of them, I like the reasoning. I do believe strongly, though, that Du Kyungsung comes out ahead of Ui Bang by criteria of the show, or (even more strongly) by history's standard. His controlled demeanor is more an asset than it is a liability in combat. His rivalry with the Archfiend demonstrates that he is of a strength and skill superior to all other warriors on AOW, with the obvious exception of the aforementioned, and that includes Ui Bang. Ui Bang may have trained the Archfiend (according to the show), but he had clearly been surpassed by him by the time period in which the show the takes place. General Du demonstrated several times that he had no fear of any other warrior in the series, Archfiend notwithstanding. Ui Bang was not even strong enough to stand up to his own hormones to do what was right. Even if they were close in terms strength (which they were not) Ui Bang is lacking certain intangible character traits that would be necessary for one to label him a great warrior the caliber of Ui Min and Kyungsung. He was a revolutionary leader who ruled with strength and intimidation. Fear is a shaky pedestal to stand on, and Ui Bang was clearly protected by the Archfiend's loyalty. He would have fallen far sooner were it not for Yi Ui Min. By the way I noticed that Chung Kyun is not on this list. ;D Any reason why?... I won't argue the Yi Ui-Bang/Gen. Du comparison since there is no basis in the series to really compare them. I do agree Gen. Du has the edge in history but that is not the criteria used. In the series, Yi Ui-Bang never lost a fight to anyone. While it is implied the Archfiend surpassed him, it is not made explicit. Certainly, he and his iron club were feared by his opponents. As for Chung Kyun, I see no reason to put him in the top 10. His killing of Yi Ui-Bang was a sneak attack when Yi Ui-Bang's guard was down and even then he needed three armies to finish him off. Can you name anyone of note Chung killed in a straightforward duel. Most of the killing in the Chung era was done by Chief Huh.
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Post by seven stars on Jul 7, 2004 7:20:33 GMT -5
Thanks for saying that.
I can't stand Chung Kyun, and was trying to evoke a response from someone. There is no way he belongs in this group.
As far as Ui Bang goes, I'm not debating his place in the top 3. I simply don't believe that the Yi Ui Bang character in AOW could have defeated Du Kyungsung's depiction.
Sorry for all of the history stuff in the previous post, I know that it was stated from the outset that this debate is based solely on the television series interpretation.
For one last history piece though, those who haven't read it already, should read Imperial Dragon's post entitled "Archfiend fan's gotta read this"!
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Post by Lord Metacom on Jul 11, 2004 16:53:30 GMT -5
hmm, i have a slightly different list (my version entails those who are better overall, such as better leadership, diplomacy, etc. in addition to being better fighters, and i'm using the drama as a reference instead of actual history):
1. Yi Ui-bang. i feel he was a better warrior than the Archfiend. even though the Archfiend eventually became stronger than him, this guy still was better overall. from the beginning, he took the bold initiative of deposing the emperor; even with the help he received, the idea and most of the work was done by him. he wiped out entire monasteries worth of warrior monks almost single handed, and that was only the beginning. it was his iron will (in addition to his famed iron club) that ruled Koryo, and none, not Yi Ko or the former Emperor could stand in his way. his success was not only on the battlefield. he skillfully negotiated an alliance with the imperial house yet he never bullied the emperor (well, not nearly as much as the chungs) he also skillfully arranged an alliance with the Chungs, thus temporarily stopping them. his only setback was against the Viceroy, but instead of drinking himself into a stupor, he defiantly vowed to return and crush his enemies. although he was isolated and knifed by Chung Kyung, he wiped out three armies and would have killed more if he had not died of exhaustion. Overall, none can compare with this titan.
2- Archfiend. this guy is a master warrior, but little else. every army he commands ends up dead. his lack of diplomacy is compensated by his generous use of his axe. i put him at number two because he simply cannot compare with yi ui-bang. after every setback, he drinks himself into a stupor and beats his family. he also exiled duduel, the strongest pillar of support, while drunk. his ambition to become emperor caused him to go wayward as he ignored the needs of the people. Ui-bang never had such an ambition, so he was successful in his aim to simply seize power. The Archfiend's saving grace is his awesome fighting skills. he slaughtered his way out of death on numerous occassions, even after being poisoned. however, he only survived a few times due to Bu-yong (her removing of the poison and escape across the river) and General Du's permission. his other great characteristic was his fierce loyalty. he was the only supporter of Yi Ui-bang after Yi Ui-bang's death. he took care of the family and vowed to destroy the Chungs, and never forgot Yi Ui-bang.
3- General Du. equal strength and skill as Archfiend, and a much better commander, but his passive nature makes him less imposing, as Another Archfiend Fan said.
4- Viceroy Cho Wi-choong (spelling?). even though he was neither a major character nor was he there for long, his military prowess was impressive. he led his troops to victory after victory against the Imperial Armies. he held his own against the Archfiend during their brief battle. he won against Yi Ui-bang on the battlefield and made him fall from favor. in the end, when his army was surrounded by many, he turned his sword against himself (the only great warrior to do so).
5- Brue. This mighty man was there with the Archfiend throughout most of his odyssey, and he has great strength. While he has no commanding or diplomatic skills, this is offset by his loyalty to the Archfiend and the fact this his awesome fighting power got him and the Archfiend out of many sticky spots.
6- General Choi Bu. just as loyal and strong as Brue, but didn't save the Archfiend's life as often as Brue.
7- Chung Jung-bu. yes, i put him on this list. at his old age, he was still feared by all, except for Yi Ui-bang and the Archfiend, (and Yi Ko and Che Won). he must have had great military skill to be a superior general back when the civil servants ran the government. he was instrumental in the 1170 coup, and even the great KDS and Huh Seung feared his sword. Chung Jung-bu and his son brutally but effectively managed the government and the Imperial House. he was not killed in a great duel, but was executed after a staged trial in which his "loyal" subordinates turned against him. even from beyond the grave, he still managed to get back at KDS. if he wasn't so old, he would have been higher on the list.
8- Mang Yi. peasant who rallied other peasants to kick crap outta Imperial Army for a while. enough said.
9-Captain/General Park. Fierce loyalty to Archfiend, plus he helped Archfiend escape from Yun-ju and later Oon-ju; he gave his own life painfully for the latter.
10-Kim Sa Mi. Hard to top his odd psychic powers and strange ability to predict the enemy's next move, but he lacked fighting skills and was no diplomat.
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Post by Lord Metacom on Jul 11, 2004 16:56:58 GMT -5
btw,i didn't add Yi Ko or Che Won to the list, because i started watching just as Yi Ko was killed and didn't see Che Won too much. from what i saw of them, they were more like the guy who lost his eye against the rebels (pirate man), i.e. cool weapons and good fighters, but not that great overall.
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Post by mace_windu on Jul 11, 2004 18:11:26 GMT -5
btw,i didn't add Yi Ko or Che Won to the list, because i started watching just as Yi Ko was killed and didn't see Che Won too much. from what i saw of them, they were more like the guy who lost his eye against the rebels (pirate man), i.e. cool weapons and good fighters, but not that great overall. Trust Another Archfiend Fan and me, Yi Ko should be in anyone's top 10. He wouldn't have been in a blood brother pact with The Archfiend and Ui-bang (btw anyone remember that? the young warriors w/o their beards! ;D) if he couldn't bring it. I saw that early duel too and he fought the Archfiend pretty good before he lost. He was just absolutely brutal on *and* off the battlefield. That should at least put him above General Park and the peasant guy. But I like your choice of #1--I always thought Ui-bang was all business on the battlefield even though he failed in other things outside of it. Plus it looked like it took about a week before they finally killed him off. ;D Ui-bang vs. Archfiend would really be a tossup. Also interesting choice of Chung Jung-bu, I think he was a guy who probably was very skilled in combat in his prime as witnessed by his subordinates always impressed with his daily sword practice in the courtyard. I think if we knew more about him more people would rank him higher.
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Post by ID on Jul 11, 2004 19:04:15 GMT -5
Trust Another Archfiend Fan and me, Yi Ko should be in anyone's top 10. He wouldn't have been in a blood brother pact with The Archfiend and Ui-bang (btw anyone remember that? the young warriors w/o their beards! ;D) if he couldn't bring it. I saw that early duel too and he fought the Archfiend pretty good before he lost. He was just absolutely brutal on *and* off the battlefield. That should at least put him above General Park and the peasant guy. But I like your choice of #1--I always thought Ui-bang was all business on the battlefield even though he failed in other things outside of it. Plus it looked like it took about a week before they finally killed him off. ;D Ui-bang vs. Archfiend would really be a tossup. Also interesting choice of Chung Jung-bu, I think he was a guy who probably was very skilled in combat in his prime as witnessed by his subordinates always impressed with his daily sword practice in the courtyard. I think if we knew more about him more people would rank him higher. i agree about yi ko/ he was one awesome character. but, the archfiend wasn't part of the brotherhood. it was only ui bang, ko, and won. Here is my list 1} Tie- The Archfiend and Yi Ko. {two awesome characters that i loved the same, and still think are awesome. 2} Yi Ui Bang {He just isn't #1. But he was still awesome. I liked Suh In Suk better as Kwon Hyun in EWG, however. 3} Che WOn {best comic relief, and was a good warrior too. he had one moving death scene.} 4 General Park {I liked him alot. No one, except for Brue and CHoi Bu, was more loyal to the archfiend. He also had cool throwing knives AND was an excellent warrior. I liked him more than Choi Bu} 5} Tie Brue and Choi Bu {Both loyal to archfiend. Plus Brue is super-human. When you firsy see him, he is carrying a cauldron twice his size, and three times his wait. Choi Bu is a Excellent Martial Artist whom I respect. There deaths were too much} 6 Du Kyung Seung { I liked him a lot. An example of a true warrior. I just wasn't that interested in his character} 7 Duduel {Yeah thats right. In your face} 8} Viceroy Cho Wi'Chong { I liked him. He was a true warrior. The Arcfhiedn himself said it. ANd becaus ehe was a true warrior: honest and loyal, he was decieved by the court and in the end, gave up his own life to save his people.} 9} Monkey Man {I dont care what you think. He was so funny, that even though he was a lying sack of s*** who had the power to save Yi Ui bang but sold out to the chungs, he still is cool} OK fine, Jasun is at # 9. Happy? 10 Huh Seung {He was just what KDS wasn't: A Man} Honorable Mentions Yi Ji Soon {I liked him, but since he was a loser and coward at the begining, he doesn't belong on my list KDS {Not! HAHAHAHAHA} Chung Jung Bu {interesting, and smart, just too sneaky, and his son was an a**. Still, i loved his mindgames, and hi ability to be one step ahead.} Song Yuin {comic relief nothing more} Hyun Duk-san {He was a good warrior, just betrayed the archfiend to satisfy his father's greed} Cho Kyung {brave for a little 15 year old} General Woo {He was a true warrior. Just didnt know him enough} Choe Chunghun and his little friends {Not!} And Lt. Kim {he was cool, but a jerk, and a liar.} And now as a bonus: My top three hottest women of AOW 1} Muby {No suprise, eh? Name anyone in AOW you think is better} 2 Olan {Sexy sword girl.} 3 Princess Su-an and Soran {god KDS, how could you give them up?}
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Post by mace_windu on Jul 11, 2004 19:22:52 GMT -5
i agree about yi ko/ he was one awesome character. but, the archfiend wasn't part of the brotherhood. it was only ui bang, ko, and won. That's right, oops! ;D Duduel eh? Well he's seems to have some mystical powers that scare the warriors, but the only combat I saw him in was when he bonked the Archfiend with his staff! I guess that sort of counts. Yeah Muby is the #1 babe of the show. I think Aji/Jaunsun had potential, but still too young. I was a little disappointed with the actress they chose for the older version.
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Post by Cherryblossomgirl on Jul 12, 2004 15:22:38 GMT -5
Here's my list: 1. Yi-ui-Bang 2. Yi-ko 3. Captian Park 4. General du *not the one on our boards* 5. Yi-Ui Min 6. Kyung Dae Seung 7. Che Won 8. General Choi Chung hon * of the Woobang * 9. Huh Seung* 10. Kim Sami * although a monk, he still kicked some feirce tail.
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Post by Aging Warrior on Jul 12, 2004 16:14:43 GMT -5
Who was on the winning side more often than any other character?
Who turned events to his advantage the best?
Which nonroyal survived the longest (besides Du)?
The archfiend couldn't even keep his head, but the great hero took his fortune with him.
The greatest of all...Monkey Man Yi
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