|
Post by seven stars on Nov 23, 2004 15:50:50 GMT -5
Both are men of high ideals. Only one is a man of the cloth, however. They matchup well in loyalty, although their loyalties seem to lie in slightly different places.
Moon was loyal to Koryo's regime and could see no scenario in which revolution would be justifiable. Duduel was loyal to the people of the land of Koryo, and saw the regime as a vehicle for the protection and leading of the nation.
Which of these two was greater?
|
|
|
Post by Maalii on Nov 24, 2004 17:15:06 GMT -5
I don't think the characters compare all that well because Moon Kuk Kyum was clearly a historical figure and Duduel appears to be a plot device, albeit a pretty effective and intriguing one. Duduel rather than being an advocate of the people seems to me as an internal plot device that serves as the chronicler of fate and the hand of fate when the occasion presents itself. He is injected into the story both as one who pushes the Archfiend to fulfill his supposed destiny, while at the same time playing a decisive role in the devastating ambush and defeat of the Archfiend's army at the hands of Kyung Dae Seung. No matter what Duduel says, this action makes little sense if we truly consider the Duduel character to represent an actual person. It makes abundant sense if we view Duduel as an agent of fate.
It seems that part of Duduel's role (in addition to being the hand of fate) to continue to remind viewers of the plight of the people and, perhaps to show us that no person could really save the people. KDS didn't succeed because he refused to grab power, and the others failed because they did. And, as CCH's young ghost said, perhaps CCH's biggest mistake was not seizing the throne himself. Duduel by his own actions demonstrates the futility of the Age of Warriors (in terms of salvation of the common people), because, for all his rhetoric, he ultimately is an agent of death, rather than an agent of positive change.
In contrast to Duduel, Minister Moon was a historical person whose presence demonstrated the helplessness of a principled court official in a country ruled by those who had no interest in the welfare of people. He showed courage in openly disagreeing with those in power, but his defiance could do little to improve the nation because he lacked the support (political and military). In a sense, however, Minister Moon and major warriors had one thing in common---the warriors initially fought for "the cause", principled ministers like Moon tried to support "the cause" through peaceful, political methods, and both the ministers and the warriors failed.
|
|
|
Post by Eowyn on Nov 26, 2004 7:42:55 GMT -5
I think that you have explained Master Duduel's character perfectly, Maalii.
|
|
|
Post by seven stars on Nov 27, 2004 0:48:10 GMT -5
Yet again I am humbled by your intelligence Maallii. I have understood Duduel as a fictional character designed to move the plot of the story (more the fictional stuff), but I certainly did not understand his symbolism in the way that you have described him, with such eloquence. (I sometimes have to look your words up Maallii ). ...It's as though I were sitting at the foot of Solomon's throne. ;D
|
|
|
Post by ID on Nov 27, 2004 8:34:18 GMT -5
Wow, Maali. That is all I can say. I wish we had more people like you in this world.
I looked up Moon Kuk Kyum in the back of Generals And Scholars {the appendixes in the back are magnificent, though the book itself isn't that good}
On the 1175-1196 listings of court officials, Mun Kukkyom has perhaps the best backround of any offical present. He had passed the civil service exam. {I remember reading somewhere that his paper was truly exceptional} His clan had been civil officials for several generations, and he had become a member of the State Council, under Emperor Myong-Jong.
{fun fact: Yi Kwang Jong was also in the state council, but he did not have any of the before mentioned qualitities. In fact, under his name, the only thing it says is "M" which means he was in the military.}
{another fun fact: during his reign, Yi Ui Min held the following posts: "Supreme General" "State Councilman" "Minister fo Punishments" and was a member of the "Dept. of Ministries"}
As you probably know by now, Moon Kuk Kyum married his daugter to Yi Lin {Ui Bang's brother}. And after the Chungs asassinated Yi Ui Bang, Moon Kuk Kyum had allowed Lin, to slip away with his {Lin's} wife and children, so that Lin can "perserve his clan". And as we all know, Yi Lin's descendents would take down Koryo, and would create Chosun. This means that the emperors of Chosun, are Moon Kuk Kyum's descendents as well.
|
|
|
Post by Maalii on Nov 27, 2004 12:59:30 GMT -5
I am unworthy of your praise. As the ancients would say "I am only a paltry scholar". I think the praise should really go to the superb crafters of AOW, who have given us so much to enjoy and discuss. As someone who is himself working on an epic novel (my posting name is derived from one of the characters--a character I hope you will all enjoy in five to ten years), one part of me felt like a student (a very enthralled one) while watching AOW--the other part just sat back and enjoyed it! The history behind AOW was certainly compelling, as was the history that spawned the great ROTK novel, but the genius of both AOW and ROTK lies in the fictional aspects that bring that history to life. Returning, in part, to the original subject of the post, I think the Duduel character one of the best dramatic devices in AOW. As for Minister Moon, the connection you pointed out, ID, between Moon Kuk Kyum, Yi Lin, and the eventual Choson dynasty (Yi Songgye et al), was all the more reason for the writers to put the good minister in a prominent role in the drama.
|
|
|
Post by Eowyn on Nov 30, 2004 9:22:44 GMT -5
...It's as though I were sitting at the foot of Solomon's throne. ;D How true, seven stars, such great insight! And you write so well, Maalii. Your book shall be a great success!
|
|
|
Post by seven stars on Nov 30, 2004 11:55:11 GMT -5
Yes, we are greatly anticipating the completion and release of your epic novel Maallii!
|
|