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Post by mace_windu on Jul 19, 2004 22:58:37 GMT -5
So which warrior do you think had the best monks under his command? There was Ja-sun and "Sammy" Kim Sami under the Imperial Dragon and they were quite skilled in combat and military strategy. But remember the monks under Yi Ko? They weren't too shabby either. In fact I think they saw a lot more action than Ja-sun/Kim Sami. That was when the show had a lot more close combat and did some "wire-fu" as well. I also thought the monks under Yi Ko seemed a bit corrupt while Ja-sun and Kim Sami were committed to the great cause until they reached their breaking point. Just some thoughts that popped into my head as I began to remember the whole monk revenge thing that was going on while Ui-bang was in charge. If I remember correctly one of the masters went up against Ui-bang but ol' Iron Club ended up shattering his leg with one blow and that was the end of that. ;D
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Post by luvarchfiend on Jul 20, 2004 12:27:52 GMT -5
i missed the first 20-30 episodes...i know, a shame isn't it? but i will comment on jasun and kim sami. i agree they were both great strategists, but i am not so sure of the commitment to the cause, make that the archfiend as the imperial dragon, they were commited to the cause but both had grave doubts that the archfiend was indeed the imperial dragon. jasun questioned this almost all along. i wonder, even though it was many, many years before he broke his ties, if this doubt kept things from progressing as they might have. he was the doubter, choi bu the total loyalist....i don't think either served the cause and imperial dragon (archfiend) as well as they might have because of this. as for kim sami, i never quite liked him. great strategist, but i never trusted him. if jasun had remained in charge instead of handing over the mt mita forces to kim sami, i also wonder if there might have been a different outcome.
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Post by Chung Kyun on Jul 20, 2004 17:31:46 GMT -5
i missed the first 20-30 episodes...i know, a shame isn't it? but i will comment on jasun and kim sami. i agree they were both great strategists, but i am not so sure of the commitment to the cause, make that the archfiend as the imperial dragon, they were commited to the cause but both had grave doubts that the archfiend was indeed the imperial dragon. jasun questioned this almost all along. i wonder, even though it was many, many years before he broke his ties, if this doubt kept things from progressing as they might have. he was the doubter, choi bu the total loyalist....i don't think either served the cause and imperial dragon (archfiend) as well as they might have because of this. as for kim sami, i never quite liked him. great strategist, but i never trusted him. if jasun had remained in charge instead of handing over the mt mita forces to kim sami, i also wonder if there might have been a different outcome. jasun tried his best to keep following ui-min. but ui-min kept telling him no and never replyed to his letters. kim sami never knew ui-min so i don't blame him. now the monk that was under chung kyun knew how to fight, he was great.
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Post by TheIceTiger on Jul 22, 2004 22:42:06 GMT -5
Well i just think they're not really monks since they kill people all the time? Isnt killing forbidden in buddhism? The only bad image i get from Kim Sami is 1: he betrayed archfiend and 2: he slaughtered all the soldiers that were surrendering. That sure isnt the way of the imerpial dragon like he claims to be
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Post by Chung Kyun on Jul 23, 2004 11:09:27 GMT -5
Well i just think they're not really monks since they kill people all the time? Isnt killing forbidden in buddhism? The only bad image i get from Kim Sami is 1: he betrayed archfiend and 2: he slaughtered all the soldiers that were surrendering. That sure isnt the way of the imerpial dragon like he claims to be well you like ui-min who killed everyone in the towns. that sure isn't the way of the imperial dragon like he claims to be.
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Post by TheIceTiger on Jul 24, 2004 15:52:29 GMT -5
well maybe because kim sami is a monk. I thought monks were always peaceful and kind, not fighting a war and killing innoncent people and as cold blooded as the archfiend
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Post by Chung Kyun on Jul 24, 2004 19:33:46 GMT -5
well maybe because kim sami is a monk. I thought monks were always peaceful and kind, not fighting a war and killing innoncent people and as cold blooded as the archfiend kim sami is hardly a monk, he was just raised there, he didn't even have a name. he then lived the rest of his life training the imperial dragon army even in his young age. so he was more of a monk style in hair then being a monk in teachings of not fighting. he only killed the enemy and not the people that had nothing to do with the war. in the end he gave up his own life so ui-min would stop the disgusting killings of the people. he made a choice that ui-min should had done a long time ago, and thats give his own life for betraying the people, something kim sami never did and thats betray the people.
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Post by TheIceTiger on Jul 24, 2004 21:50:41 GMT -5
Well i have to disagree on this one. If the surrendering soildiers doesnt count as innoncent people, the every living being in the empire has to do with the war one way or the other. They contriute food, supply, tax moneys, comes down to it, everyone has to do with the war. The fact that he killed the surrendering soilders just make him no better than the archfiend or any other warriors. Also as you can see, the archfiend did pay his life for betraying the people, the fact that he destory the imperial army just lead him to his own doom. Both the archfiend and Kim Sami have the same problem, they cant stop killing people! but remember, they both gave tears for the people's death. I don't think i need to remind everyone here that how archfiend blame himself on the disgustable thigns he did on the Portrait hall and at his last moment. I think the only person in the show who really truely cares about the people lives in the show is Gen Du. Remember how he said that even though those soldiers are part of the rebels with Yi ji soon, they are still the same people and are their brothers. Sadly Du taught the archfiend about it but archfiend never seem to learn it.
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Post by luvarchfiend on Jul 25, 2004 5:34:43 GMT -5
everybody keeps mentioning kim sami...well what about jasun? he was a true monk was he not? didn't he fight and kill people? is it supposed to be ok if you are doing so for a righteous cause?
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Post by skinz on Jul 25, 2004 8:17:51 GMT -5
Hey Luvarchfeind, here's one of the monks for Yi Ko Kinda like Jasun evil twin, right?
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Post by Chung Kyun on Jul 25, 2004 8:38:24 GMT -5
Well i have to disagree on this one. If the surrendering soildiers doesnt count as innoncent people, the every living being in the empire has to do with the war one way or the other. They contriute food, supply, tax moneys, comes down to it, everyone has to do with the war. The fact that he killed the surrendering soilders just make him no better than the archfiend or any other warriors. Also as you can see, the archfiend did pay his life for betraying the people, the fact that he destory the imperial army just lead him to his own doom. Both the archfiend and Kim Sami have the same problem, they cant stop killing people! but remember, they both gave tears for the people's death. I don't think i need to remind everyone here that how archfiend blame himself on the disgustable thigns he did on the Portrait hall and at his last moment. I think the only person in the show who really truely cares about the people lives in the show is Gen Du. Remember how he said that even though those soldiers are part of the rebels with Yi ji soon, they are still the same people and are their brothers. Sadly Du taught the archfiend about it but archfiend never seem to learn it. even if kim sami was being hard and not careing for his enemy, you still can't say its worse then ui-min sending his men to distory a town or towns full of people who didin't fight him, even little girls and kids died. i mean kim sami was a kid who was only for the cause of shilla and only to take out his enemys, but ui-min just gets mad and makes people pay for no reason. i still can't say what kim sami did was wrong. thats why du got kicked out for being too nice.
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Post by Chung Kyun on Jul 25, 2004 8:41:21 GMT -5
everybody keeps mentioning kim sami...well what about jasun? he was a true monk was he not? didn't he fight and kill people? is it supposed to be ok if you are doing so for a righteous cause? kids who are raised in temples are like monks, but it doesn't make them really monks. he been training for the cause since he was young. so he was ready to fight since ever. the other monks are just praying and hardly fight only for a cause will they fight.
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Post by luvarchfiend on Jul 25, 2004 9:16:20 GMT -5
yes skinz, could be jasun's evil twin. ;D i missed that part of aow.
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Post by luvarchfiend on Jul 25, 2004 9:18:57 GMT -5
kids who are raised in temples are like monks, but it doesn't make them really monks. he been training for the cause since he was young. so he was ready to fight since ever. the other monks are just praying and hardly fight only for a cause will they fight. so you are saying that just because he looked like a monk, and dressed like a monk...that he wasn't a real monk? and what about all these other monks that have been mentioned, like the ones mace was talking about, and the one you mentioned being with chung kyun? they weren't real monks either? this issue confuses me.
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Post by Chung Kyun on Jul 25, 2004 9:27:42 GMT -5
so you are saying that just because he looked like a monk, and dressed like a monk...that he wasn't a real monk? and what about all these other monks that have been mentioned, like the ones mace was talking about, and the one you mentioned being with chung kyun? they weren't real monks either? this issue confuses me. jasun doesn't dress like a monk, he had armor and a sword. yes he might have been a monk but he left. he is like master dududel they left for a cause. the monk who was with chung kyun was one of the monks who hated ui-bang for killing monks. so he joined chung kyun to help him take out ui-bang. but then when ui-bang died he wanted to leave because, he said it was over and ui-bang wont harm the people again. chung kyun says ok but tells huh or his men to take out the monk. at night they take out the monk and its over for him. now like a human there are monks who are corrupted, and want power. so yes monks do fight some for a good cause and others just for there own self to become powerful.
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