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Post by Sudal on Jun 8, 2004 11:09:11 GMT -5
I'll take King Kyun Hwon over Yi Ui-Bang. (I started with these two since they were played by the same actor). Kyun Hwon forged a kingdom in the midst of a more tumultuous period of Korean history. He gathered a following primarily by virtue of his strength as a warrior (early on), and as a leader (overall). Ui-Bang also gained a following by virtue of his great strength. However, Ui-Bang came up in a time of much greater stability as far as kingdoms are concerned. Granted, the Imperial House was corrupt (ie Ui Jong), but that's better than one corrupt imperial house (Shilla) and two other houses (Koryo and Bekjae), with all three looking to overthrow one another. On top of that, it is my impression that Northern China posed a greater threat to the Korean peninsula during the later 3 kingdoms period, than it did during the "Age of Warriors" I say all of this to point out that the times called for strong warriors in a greater way during the ascent of Taejo Wang Guhn than they did during the "Age of Warriors" period. Anyway, thats my view in comparing those two. It probably has some bearing on other comparisons, however, I'm sure that someone else has an enthusiastic point of view. No parameters, what are your thoughts?
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Post by jacques on Jun 8, 2004 12:07:46 GMT -5
Good point on the King Kyung-hwon over Yi Ui-Bang analysis, Sudal! The King is definitely portrayed in a more multi-dimensional way with more dramatic flair and manic authority than the Yi Ui-Bang character towards the end. I can't even begin to imagine the complexities of the state of politics and warfare on the Korean peninsula before Taejo Wang-Geon unified the peninsula. So many kingdoms, fiefdoms, regional lords and armies than you can throw ingredients into a stewing power pot! I have great reverance indeed for the historical First Emperor of Koryo that he was able to tie in so many irreconcilable factions through a delicate combination of warfare and diplomacy. What about King Kyung-hwon's sons versus the Archfiend's sons? Here, we see the same good son vs evil sons dichotomy, but at least the Baek-jae princes were WELL-VERSED in military arts and strategy, not the wannabes that the Archfiend has in the form of Dumb & Dumber.
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Post by imperial dragon on Jun 8, 2004 15:28:38 GMT -5
I'll take King Kyun Hwon over Yi Ui-Bang. (I started with these two since they were played by the same actor). Kyun Hwon forged a kingdom in the midst of a more tumultuous period of Korean history. He gathered a following primarily by virtue of his strength as a warrior (early on), and as a leader (overall). Ui-Bang also gained a following by virtue of his great strength. However, Ui-Bang came up in a time of much greater stability as far as kingdoms are concerned. Granted, the Imperial House was corrupt (ie Ui Jong), but that's better than one corrupt imperial house (Shilla) and two other houses (Koryo and Bekjae), with all three looking to overthrow one another. On top of that, it is my impression that Northern China posed a greater threat to the Korean peninsula during the later 3 kingdoms period, than it did during the "Age of Warriors" I say all of this to point out that the times called for strong warriors in a greater way during the ascent of Taejo Wang Guhn than they did during the "Age of Warriors" period. Anyway, thats my view in comparing those two. It probably has some bearing on other comparisons, however, I'm sure that someone else has an enthusiastic point of view. No parameters, what are your thoughts? i agree that king kwun hyun was more amazing than ui bang. {suh in suk did an over-the-top job, the best role i have ever seen in any korean drama was suh in suk's as king kwun} but kwun hyun did not arise during the time when shilla was fighting two other kingdoms. shilla was the only kingdom at the time of his uprising. if you remember from early on in the show, he was a captain whow as to exterminate pirates and bandits on the orders of the emperor and empress of shilla. he uprised, after gaining brotherhood with the mighty rebel sudal {not that loser general who kept losing fights to yu geumpil and park suhlee, i mean kwun hyun's sworn brother, who burned himself alive, rather than betray kwun and join goongyae} and huhwal {or general chu} as well as the old chinese looking prime minister. kwun hyun arrised when shilla was still in power, and restored the kingdom of beckjae {which was destroyed by shilla, when shilla united the three kingdoms of korea 300 years prior} he forged later beckjae, as goongyae had formed koryo {which was ripped off of koguryo, which was a mighty kingdom which streched all the way into china, untill the shillans destroyed it in the early korean three kingdoms war} Yi Ui-Bang was nothing more than the captain of a few hundred convoys {or chief convoy as christy translates it} he was able to uprise at bo-hyun temple, during a time when warriors were mistreated ans starved by evil eunuchs and aristocrats. likewise, king kwun hyun arised because the court of shilla was curropted
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Post by imperial dragon on Jun 8, 2004 15:40:29 GMT -5
What about King Kyung-hwon's sons versus the Archfiend's sons? Here, we see the same good son vs evil sons dichotomy, but at least the Baek-jae princes were WELL-VERSED in military arts and strategy, not the wannabes that the Archfiend has in the form of Dumb & Dumber. well shin-guhn was a good war leader, though he was one idotic loser, and i think that if he hadn't been born, to overthrow his father and kill the vice priminister and geum-kang, beckjae had a chance to unite the three kingdoms, and destroy koryo and shilla. but yong-guhn and yang-guhn are definitly like dumb and dumber {though they were strong fighters, and OK commanders} they were so stupid. geum-kang is the perfect model of a prince. he was a great and brave swordsmen, and mighty and brave commander. i don't blame kwun hyun and choi seung-wal for wanteing to bring him on the throne {too bad kwun hyun didn't follow the vice priminister's advice and kill the three dimwits when he had a chance, and wipe out his court from men like p.m neunghae and gen. shin}
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Post by Sudal on Jun 9, 2004 10:46:29 GMT -5
I stand corrected, as certainly Kyon-Hwon is one of the authors of the later 3 kingdoms, however, he was not raised in that climate. Good point, I suppose that there is also truly no comparison between a hero-king and a revolutionary who ultimately amounts to not much more than a blip on the radar as far as history is concerned. Although, as you have stated, it is a worthy point that a few turns of fortune may have turned Kyun-Hwon and Ui-Bang into very similar characters in history. As far as the sons go, my opinions are not very different from those already expressed. Even Yang-guhm and Yong-guhm were well trained warriors, in spite of the fact that they were inferior (from a warfare standpoint) to their older and half brothers. I differ a little on Shin-guhm and Geum Kang though. I think that they both demonstrate Kyun Hwon's incompleteness as a man, and as a ruler. Had he led his household and kingdom properly, Shin-guhm may have become the leader to unify the kingdoms, and Geum Kang would not have coveted the throne. On top of that, factions in the government could have been avoided regardless of the King's decision, if not for his neglect of certain principle virtues in favor of strength alone. People will follow a strong leader as long as his/her strength lasts. But virtuosity has a longer shelf-life. In fact many feel that it is eternal. How about the Archfiend vs my man Sudal?
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Post by Better Yet on Jun 9, 2004 13:12:58 GMT -5
Here are a few matchups:
Archfiend v Sudal
Du Kyungsung v Shin Seunkyum
Yi Ko v Yangil
Lt. Huh v Yu Geumpil
Pick em...
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Post by imperial dragon on Jun 9, 2004 14:50:36 GMT -5
Here are a few matchups: Archfiend v Sudal Du Kyungsung v Shin Seunkyum Yi Ko v Yangil Lt. Huh v Yu Geumpil Pick em... which sudal are you talking about? i would guess that you are talking about kwun hyun's great sworn brother, not the general with the constipated voice. Yi Ui Min vs. Sudal strength: Yi Ui Min would win here. He never lost a fight before. { and no, kds could never beat him} loyalty: sudal is the king of loyalty! his death scene was the most heartbreaking from anoy drama. HE BURNT HIMSELF ALIVE RATHER THAN BETRAY HIS SWORN BROTHER!!! courage: its a tie. yi ui min would go to attack the royal court/CC alone with no one other than brue. and sudal defened his worn brother's life alone with general bang {who was killed} against the koryo troops. true loyalty! kwun cried when bang died. and he cried everyday because he wanted to march against song-ak to save sudal's life. too bad that sudal burned himself alive, laughing. Du Gyeongseung vs. gen. shin what type of retarded matchup is this? why, out of all people would you chose someone like shin against the mighty du? general shin was a weak bastard who betrayed his own king, to put weak little shin-guhn on the throne. i would understand if you would match up du gyeongseung with someone strong like park suhlee of koryo , or someone loyal like park young-kim of beckjae. {he was the one who saved kwun hyun's life after the overthrow} without a doubt, gen. du wins over shin in strength,courage, and loyalty. yi ko vs. yangil umm, who wass yangil again? i'll answer that another time once my memory clears up. Lt. Huh vs. Yu Geumpil what was the point of this? yu geumpil was the mighiest warrior in EWG! how can you compare him to lt. huh, who couldn't even beat kds? {kds wasn't that mighty either, he was weaker than the archfiend} strength: YU WINS!!! he broke general sudal {not the good one, i mean the annoying one who is played by the dude who plays kds' cousin} sword in one clash! loyalty: yu geumpil was one of the most loyal warriors in EWG. lt. huh wouldn't know loyalty if he found th definition in a dictionary courage: yu geumpil. hands down
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Post by Sudal on Jun 9, 2004 15:56:29 GMT -5
Actually, a couple of things are mixed up here.
Archfiend v Sudal
The later "Sudal" that you are talking about was named "Yaesul". I agree that his own perception of himself was far more fierce than his true historical notoriety. So yes, the man I intended for consideration was the "Sudal" that you are talking about. Great point about the Archfiend being undefeated by the way, because Sudal did lose to Kyun Hwon 3 times. This is in part, how Kyun Hwon won his loyalty.
Du Gyeongseung v Shin Seoungyeum
With regard to this matchup, I was not referring to Shin Duk of Bekjae, but to the sworn brother of Wang Geon, who led the rebellion against Goongyea, and who died in his sworn brother's place. He was renowned as an undefeated warrior up until that time, and is regarded as the highest ranking merit subject of that kingdom. There is no doubt that Shin Duk would have been a terrible choice for this comparison.
Yi Ko v Yangil
Yangil was the regional lord who gave Goongyea his first stronghold, and also the father of Goongyea's first wife. You know, the first wife that he put to death, not the second one. It has been a long time since I have seen these episodes but I seem to remember him being extremely fierce all the way to his death, upon which time the King proceeded to name him the greatest warrior of their time. Yi Ko, on the other hand, is the coolest character ever to appear in a historical dramatization.
Lt. Huh v Yu Geumpil
I will not defend or explain here. You are absolutely right, and I do not know what I was thinking.
But how about Yu Geumpil v Che Won?
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Post by jacques on Jun 9, 2004 16:04:22 GMT -5
Yu Geumpil and Che Won were both stocky warriors, but I seem to recall that Yu was also a brilliant military strategist, compared to Che Won who represented mostly brute force. Also remember that early on in the AOW series, Che Won and Yi Ko were presented as a duo (the scene where they were lurking in the imperial courtyard watching one of Muby's orgiastic dance and drink sessions). This was before Yi Ko went off on his own quest, Ui-Bang already had earlier started his own ambitions on a roll. The way the AOW timeline goes, Choe Chong-hoon and bros are supposed to be the descendants of Che Won? There was also a character who was supposed to be the descendant of Yu Geumpil--was it Chung Jun-bu's ingratiating son-in-law?
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Post by imperial dragon on Jun 9, 2004 17:18:38 GMT -5
Yu Geumpil and Che Won were both stocky warriors, but I seem to recall that Yu was also a brilliant military strategist, compared to Che Won who represented mostly brute force. Also remember that early on in the AOW series, Che Won and Yi Ko were presented as a duo (the scene where they were lurking in the imperial courtyard watching one of Muby's orgiastic dance and drink sessions). This was before Yi Ko went off on his own quest, Ui-Bang already had earlier started his own ambitions on a roll. The way the AOW timeline goes, Choe Chong-hoon and bros are supposed to be the descendants of Che Won? There was also a character who was supposed to be the descendant of Yu Geumpil--was it Chung Jun-bu's ingratiating son-in-law? you confuse me oh so very much.
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Post by ID on Jun 9, 2004 17:35:55 GMT -5
Actually, a couple of things are mixed up here. Archfiend v Sudal The later "Sudal" that you are talking about was named "Yaesul". I agree that his own perception of himself was far more fierce than his true historical notoriety. So yes, the man I intended for consideration was the "Sudal" that you are talking about. Great point about the Archfiend being undefeated by the way, because Sudal did lose to Kyun Hwon 3 times. This is in part, how Kyun Hwon won his loyalty. Du Gyeongseung v Shin Seoungyeum With regard to this matchup, I was not referring to Shin Duk of Bekjae, but to the sworn brother of Wang Geon, who led the rebellion against Goongyea, and who died in his sworn brother's place. He was renowned as an undefeated warrior up until that time, and is regarded as the highest ranking merit subject of that kingdom. There is no doubt that Shin Duk would have been a terrible choice for this comparison. Yi Ko v Yangil Yangil was the regional lord who gave Goongyea his first stronghold, and also the father of Goongyea's first wife. You know, the first wife that he put to death, not the second one. It has been a long time since I have seen these episodes but I seem to remember him being extremely fierce all the way to his death, upon which time the King proceeded to name him the greatest warrior of their time. Yi Ko, on the other hand, is the coolest character ever to appear in a historical dramatization. Lt. Huh v Yu Geumpil I will not defend or explain here. You are absolutely right, and I do not know what I was thinking. But how about Yu Geumpil v Che Won? OK sorry, i get these names mixed up. here are some corrections for 1} i stand firmly by my descision on ui min vs sudal, but i forgot that the annoying dude's name was yaesul for 2} here is my revised version, now remember that shin seumgyeum is NOT bastard # 7 from beckjae {the others are: shin-guhn;yong-guhn;yang-guhn;their annoying mother played by the woman who plays ui bbang's wife; the prime minister [not the awesome genious played by the guy who plays duduel, i mean the old annoying one]; and kwun neungyae} Du vs. Shin strength- TIE both are amazing warriors known througout history loyalty- TIE shin died a amazing death, were he gave his life to save wang-guhn. {he dressed up as wang's double and gave up his head to beckjae troops} du gyeongseung, on the other hand, riske dhis own life to stop the rebels from stealing form the royal treasury courage- TIE without a doubt, both were brave and cunning
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Post by seven stars on Jun 10, 2004 9:11:34 GMT -5
Why did they portray Zhao Yun as being so ugly?
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Post by seven stars on Jun 10, 2004 9:23:41 GMT -5
I don't know anything about lines of decent, with the exception of the royal line. Whatever you tell me is new information to me. Although the Yu Geumpil family line thing is interesting. Too bad the Chungs are no where near as honorable as their ancestor.
By the way I messed up registering, and I gave the name Sudal to a now non-existant member of this website.
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Post by jacques on Jun 10, 2004 9:37:10 GMT -5
By the way I messed up registering, and I gave the name Sudal to a now non-existant member of this website. Hi seven stars. Welcome to the kbc AOW fan board! Sorry to hear about your problems registering. However, that seems to be a common occurence and we have a thread under the General board called "Problems registering?" where you can post a message for the administrator Soju and he will address the problem. Here is the link: deiner.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=generalmsgs&action=display&thread=1085328323
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ArchFiend 4 life
Junior Addict
"Your Grace is Immeasurable"-every suboordinate in AoW
Posts: 187
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Post by ArchFiend 4 life on Jun 10, 2004 13:43:33 GMT -5
i havnt seen this wang guhn show, was it better than aow?
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